Does this make sense? page

[ShannonPA-S]

I'm pregnant and have been struggling with hypoglycemia. I had WLS and hate eating a lot in the morning. I was drinking a whey protein shake with whole milk. My (holistic MD) doctor said he'd rather me switch to rice protein with almond milk (or coconut milk, but it upsets my stomach) and berries. He said dairy causes a bigger increase in insulin, which could still lead to hypoglycemia, even with all the protein.

I have read that whey has been shown to increase insulin, but I thought it also increases glucagon. So I'm not sure if switching would help. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Shannon

[Fury]

I'm pregnant and have been struggling with hypoglycemia. I had WLS and hate eating a lot in the morning. I was drinking a whey protein shake with whole milk. My (holistic MD) doctor said he'd rather me switch to rice protein with almond milk (or coconut milk, but it upsets my stomach) and berries. He said dairy causes a bigger increase in insulin, which could still lead to hypoglycemia, even with all the protein.

I have read that whey has been shown to increase insulin, but I thought it also increases glucagon. So I'm not sure if switching would help. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Shannon

I've yet to come across any hard data comparing the insulin responses of various isolated proteins in matching quantities.

The "insulin index" tries, but fails, as it uses real foods that vary in carb/fat and are matched based on calories not grams of protein which distorts the results (100cal of baked beans is mostly carb, 100cal of eggs is mostly fat, 100cal of fish is mostly protein = worthless results) Info specifically on glucagon responses seems even more rare/nonexistent, all I keep seeing is amino acids = insulin/glucagon response

It's my understanding that all dietary protein, regardless of source provoke both insulin and glucagon responses based on its digestion rate. To make this even more complex, whey being very quickly absorbed and of high bioavailability is going to spike insulin faster than an equal quantity of slower digested or less bioavailable proteins (less usable aminos)

Are whey proteins invoking more insulin response than other proteins over time, or is the higher bioavailability/faster absorption simply providing a larger volume of aminos in a shorter time? This is the question, and it's one I've yet to find a good answer to

[chima_p]

If don't want your blood sugar do drop from drinking your protein, then stop drinking your protein.

[ShannonPA-S]

If don't want your blood sugar do drop from drinking your protein, then stop drinking your protein.

My blood sugar is more stable with the protein shake than without. He is just saying that the rice protein would make it even more stable. I'm having problems eating enough so as not to have hypoglycemia. I have never had this problem until a couple weeks ago during this pregnancy. So I have to do something.

[ShannonPA-S]

I've yet to come across any hard data comparing the insulin responses of various isolated proteins in matching quantities.

The "insulin index" tries, but fails, as it uses real foods that vary in carb/fat and are matched based on calories not grams of protein which distorts the results (100cal of baked beans is mostly carb, 100cal of eggs is mostly fat, 100cal of fish is mostly protein = worthless results) Info specifically on glucagon responses seems even more rare/nonexistent, all I keep seeing is amino acids = insulin/glucagon response

It's my understanding that all dietary protein, regardless of source provoke both insulin and glucagon responses based on its digestion rate. To make this even more complex, whey being very quickly absorbed and of high bioavailability is going to spike insulin faster than an equal quantity of slower digested or less bioavailable proteins (less usable aminos)

Are whey proteins invoking more insulin response than other proteins over time, or is the higher bioavailability/faster absorption simply providing a larger volume of aminos in a shorter time? This is the question, and it's one I've yet to find a good answer to

Wow, lots to think about. This is a very interesting analysis. Thanks so much!

[Monika]

@ FURY... you have made remarkable points for us to think about....

[avelin]

..and the doctor is totally right about the dairy

For my 20c worth: I don't like the idea of fruit in the morning (and especially a fruit and dairy combo) with low blood sugar - it's starting the day with sugar. That said, instead of trying to micro-manage nutrients by using protein mixes, I think it's always better to just eat real food.

Can you not just make some sort of vegetable/protein smoothie and just drink it down? What about a rich beef and vegetable broth, for example? You can't manage soft boiled eggs?

Did you mean you cannot eat in the morning or that you do not like to?

[Mud Flinger]

Many people get high blood sugar readings after eating dairy (even whey protien), but some don't. I've read about some who see a huge spike from whey only in water and that it is much lower if they mix it w/ high fat coconut milk. The only way to know for sure is to test yourself. Knowing how your body is responding while you are pregnant will help you make knowledgable choices. Take your results to your doctor so that you can decide what is best for YOU next. Dairy causes so many people issues that it is so much easier to tell people to avoid it.

[ShannonPA-S]

..and the doctor is totally right about the dairy

For my 20c worth: I don't like the idea of fruit in the morning (and especially a fruit and dairy combo) with low blood sugar - it's starting the day with sugar. That said, instead of trying to micro-manage nutrients by using protein mixes, I think it's always better to just eat real food.

Can you not just make some sort of vegetable/protein smoothie and just drink it down? What about a rich beef and vegetable broth, for example? You can't manage soft boiled eggs?

Did you mean you cannot eat in the morning or that you do not like to?

Thanks for reply. I have a really hard time eating more than a cheesestick and piece of fruit in the morning. I never realized the dairy/fruit combo wasn't good. Strangely enough, the dietitian that my OB made me see today said to stop the morning fruit also. She said she's seen it cause trouble in many pregnant women.

I can probably manage 1 soft boiled egg in the morning. A veg/protein smoothie will make me gag. My stomach feels so small in the morning that I have a really hard time with food.

But I have to do something. I got the results of my 3 hour GTT today and it was not good:

Fasting: 75
1 hour: 197!
2 hour: 103
3 hour: 41!

My blood sugar is all over the place, and that's how I feel all the time. Too few carbs and I'm tired and too many and I feel terrible. Really not sure what to do at this point. I will try the egg in the morning. I'm just really frustrated right now.

[ShannonPA-S]

Many people get high blood sugar readings after eating dairy (even whey protien), but some don't. I've read about some who see a huge spike from whey only in water and that it is much lower if they mix it w/ high fat coconut milk. The only way to know for sure is to test yourself. Knowing how your body is responding while you are pregnant will help you make knowledgable choices. Take your results to your doctor so that you can decide what is best for YOU next. Dairy causes so many people issues that it is so much easier to tell people to avoid it.

I think something is happening to me now with dairy that never happened before. I think it's really throwing me off, so I'm going to stop it other than this really sharp cheddar that I actually feel really good with...I don't get it, but whatever. No more milk, whey, etc. I actually don't think the dairy is causing my glucose to rise too much, as I had a result of 115 1 hour post-prandial after quite a serving of dairy. But I think it's making me produce too much insulin if that makes sense.