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  1. #21
    OnTheBayou's Avatar
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    What about arrowroot? This was all over the world as humans were coming of age and is quite edible.


    This matter of toxic solanum is hogwash for most people, as is alleged toxicity for raw white potatoes. I've eaten pounds and pounds over the years while prepping food or while Mom was.


  2. #22
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    Arrowroot (maranta arundinacea) is from India and was not in Africa with our ancestors.


    Modern potatoes are cultivated to reduce the toxins. Raw wild potatoes are toxic to humans.

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

  3. #23
    Anand Srivastava's Avatar
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    The same would apply to fruits. So we couldn't call them primal either. We don't know which ones where eaten in primal times. Current versions are already quite deadly, lots of fructose. Which is far more deadly than starch.


    I would say that potatoes are far more primal than apples ;-).


  4. #24
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    Most modern fruit are nothing like what would have been found in the wild and I would avoid them as much as potato.


    http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/diabetes-from-fruit.html


    The modern apple is nothing like what a wild apple was:


    http://www.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire/apple-sweetness.php


    However, the apple did come from Asia and we have had a lot longer to get used to eating them than the potato.


    * And we do know about fruits were available to Grok, you just have to research it

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

  5. #25
    eva's Avatar
    eva
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    id say neither are primal. or maybe in a very narrow, existential and seasonal sense.

    challenge yourself
    i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

  6. #26
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    @Anand Srivastava, thanks for the interesting analysis.


    If potatoes and yams are new world foods, then so are tomatoes and no one argues they are not primal. It makes more sense to say that we do not know for sure what was available back then, and tubers available in relative abundance is not at all an out-there idea.


    I feel that we seem to accept plants and vegetables that are low in carbs/starch as primal and thus ok, but the ones that are high in it, we look for further confirmation. This is falling into the same trap of making a theory and then looking only for the data that fits it (pretty much what the current research does).


    The same way the Masai and the Inuit (the French too) were a thorn in the side of the low fat movement. The Kitavans, the Hadza, and others are a thorn in ours. I loved what Gary Taubes said of good science: you have to focus on what disproves your theory.


    I want to add that I am one of those people who do not feel great on very low carb. And I've been at this for years (going on 8 now). I tried a lot but I keep going back to some starchy food/legumes. I don't have a sugar crash or crave sweets after a meal that includes some form of starch. I feel perfectly content and fine. I actually crave sweets if my meal was mostly meat and protein. But what sends sweet cravings through the roof is sugar.


  7. #27
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    I'm quite happy to say tomatoes aren't paleo and I won't eat them for the same reasons as potatoes. Quite a lot of paleo eaters don't eat nightshades. They aren't harmless:


    http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/01/06/nightshades/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12358437


    Mark did talk about them here:

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/nightshades/

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

  8. #28
    OnTheBayou's Avatar
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    Assorted responses:


    1. The arrowroot I'm referring to is a plant found at the edge of ponds, allegedly found all over the world. Is this the same as the "out of India" variety?


    2. The fact that we have so much amylase production genes compared to our cousins convinces me that long ago ancestors were eating starches way beyond what some leaves provide.


    3. Some folk here try to emulate, as best as possible, that (probable) diet of so long ago. Go for it. Others, myself included, recognize that we can't eat the same, even if ZC carnivorous, at least in urban settings. So, get rid of the worst (grains, milk, sugar), and you are 90-95% "there." Keep (modern) fruit and starchy foods in moderation and you are maybe 85-90% "there." Moderation for me meaning 100g a day carbs or less. If on a 2000 calorie/day diet, that's only 20% carbs, some of which would be there anyway, even on "Z"C.


  9. #29
    FairyRae2's Avatar
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    [quote]

    If potatoes and yams are new world foods, then so are tomatoes and no one argues they are not primal.
    </blockquote>


    Tarlach does--they are nightshades and were not available to paleo man I *believe*.


    (Just sayin! I personally do eat tomatoes and nightshades. I&#39;m certainly not strict paleo though--I eat tubers as well. But some folks do argue that tomatoes are not primal/paleo.)


  10. #30
    OnTheBayou's Avatar
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification


    FairyRae2, there are those here that believe if our Homo ancestors did not eat that exact food 2 million years ago, we shouldn&#39;t eat it now. As I said, "Go for it," presuming one can still do so.


    I think most of us recognize that there are foods available to us now that were not part of the literal paleo diet but aren&#39;t negative for us in some way now.


    Tarlach is one poster here that says "No!" to Solanum. Most humans have no side effects, so like most humans, I eat them.


    Life without New Mexico style green chile wouldn&#39;t be worth living. In fact, I think I&#39;ll go eat the last of the last batch right now.......


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