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  1. #1
    thaijinx's Avatar
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    Goitrogens...

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    Just learning about brassicas and goitrogens... I had no idea they could be so bad for the thyroid! - and here's me upping my intake of them since starting primal! -

    I'd previously been juicing broccoli, kale, spinach, bok choi and cabbage, since primal I've just been eating tones of them raw in salads. Ok, maybe not such a good idea...

    My question relates to slo-cooking them. Does this method of cooking get rid of the goitrogens, and should I also avoid drinking the 'juice' from the slo-cooker (that they've been cooked in?)

    Or is it better to boil them and then throw away the water they were cooked in? Does this not also loose some of the vitamin/mineral content of them?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I just found this article:
    WHFoods: What are goitrogens and in which foods are they found?
    I do not think that brassicas are bad for you. Only if you have a pre existing thyroid issue. It seems that cooking does help.

  3. #3
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    thai,

    If you are getting enough Iodine to keep your thyroid healthy, there will not be a problem.
    Dr. Davis says we need 500mcg to 1 mg of iodine daily to maintain a healthy thyroid.
    Iodine is not optional; it is necessary for health, including breast health, oral/gastrointestinal health, and the health of a developing fetus. The RDA for non-lactating adults is 150 mcg per day, the quantity required to not have a goiter, but not necessarily ideal thyroid health. I’ve therefore been advising 500-1000 mcg per day from an iodine supplement, such as kelp tablets (dried seaweed), available at health food stores (not pharmacies).
    Thyroid Tune-up Checklist | Wheat Belly

    Our typical Multi-Vitamin only contains 150 mcg so we need more from supplements or from foods that naturally contain iodine. Seaweed is best.

    We take a daily natural supplement called Norwegian Kelp, and we eat a bowl of seaweed soup weekly.

    Symptoms of Iodine Deficiency:
    * Fatigue
    * Depression
    * Modest weight gain
    * Cold intolerance
    * Excessive sleepiness
    * Dry, coarse hair
    * Constipation
    * Dry skin
    * Muscle cramps
    * Increased cholesterol levels
    * Decreased concentration
    * Vague aches and pains
    * Swelling of the legs
    Iodine Deficiency | University of Michigan Health System

    Foods rich in iodine:
    Foods High in Iodine

    Grizz

  4. #4
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    I feel like I'm following Grizz everywhere on the forums and posting this follow-up, but here goes: people with thyroiditis should be very careful before introducing iodine supplementation into their diet. Here's why:

    Iodine for hypothyroidism: like gasoline on a fire?

    Further conversation here:
    Perfect Health Diet Iodine and Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, Part I

    And this blog by Dr. K, who strongly advises against iodine:
    Dr. K News: Iodine and Hashimoto’s

    So...who's right? I don't know. I think it depends on the individual, and there is no "one size fits all" solution.

    I do have Hashimoto's thyroiditis, and I HAVE started taking iodine, but I am adding it very, very slowly -- ramping up over time -- and monitoring how it affects my overall health. Again, be very careful with this if you have a preexisting condition. Iodine can make things worse in some people.

    In regards to goitrogens in vegetables, cooking them is preferable. You are right, cooking them reduces the goitrogens and makes their effect overall negligible. I wouldn't avoid them in a cooked state. I might in a raw state.

  5. #5
    Grizz's Avatar
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    onalark,

    I do not advocate taking iodine. I was advocating natural foods that contain iodine per the Dr. Davis link. There is a big difference.

    Also, the link I provided by Dr. Davis advocates starting iodine natural supplementation slowly in stages and does discuss when to work with your doctor. So be sure to read links that I provide for the whole story before jumping to conclusions. You will see that we are both correct, and we can both agree that iodine is required for good thyroid health to prevent the nasty problems you speak of and that are in the link above.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 01-08-2012 at 11:51 AM.

  6. #6
    onalark's Avatar
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    These are your words:

    "Dr. Davis says we need 500mcg to 1 mg of iodine daily to maintain a healthy thyroid."

    And this was in your quote:

    "Iodine is not optional."

    A quote which cut out the section that was probably most important to anyone with thyroiditis:

    The only adverse effects of iodine arise in people who have inflammatory thyroid disease, such as Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, unsuspected thyroid nodules, or longstanding and severe iodine deficiency. In most cases, very low doses of iodine, e.g., 100 mcg per day, can be introduced and increased gradually over months. (Ideally, this would be undertaken by your healthcare provider, but good luck finding one knowledgeable about iodine.)
    So yes, Davis agrees with me. In the case of iodine, it is best to proceed with caution (more caution than Davis's post expresses) and to monitor it closely. This is especially true for people with thyroiditis.

  7. #7
    emmie's Avatar
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    Supplemental iodine is BAD for anyone with Hashimoto's. The standard amount of iodine in the average diet is OK, but anyone with Hashimoto's should not supplement.

    However, anyone who is hypothyroid usually cannot be sure whether or not Hashimoto's is the cause because blood tests are notoriously inaccurate. I was hypothyroid for 5 years, with blood tests every 4 months, and my antibodies never showed a level that would indicate Hashimoto's. However, when I had a biopsy of one of my thyroid nodules, the pathology report confirmed Hashimoto's--which my endo said is definitive.

    My understanding is that unless the body is actively attacking the thyroid at the time the blood is drawn, it's unlikely that the antibody level will be high enough for diagnosis. And for many people, the attacks are intermittant.

    So unless a person is absolutely sure, he/she doesn't have Hashimoto's, iodine supplementation is ill-advised.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by emmie View Post
    Supplemental iodine is BAD for anyone with Hashimoto's. The standard amount of iodine in the average diet is OK, but anyone with Hashimoto's should not supplement.

    However, anyone who is hypothyroid usually cannot be sure whether or not Hashimoto's is the cause because blood tests are notoriously inaccurate. I was hypothyroid for 5 years, with blood tests every 4 months, and my antibodies never showed a level that would indicate Hashimoto's. However, when I had a biopsy of one of my thyroid nodules, the pathology report confirmed Hashimoto's--which my endo said is definitive.

    My understanding is that unless the body is actively attacking the thyroid at the time the blood is drawn, it's unlikely that the antibody level will be high enough for diagnosis. And for many people, the attacks are intermittant.

    So unless a person is absolutely sure, he/she doesn't have Hashimoto's, iodine supplementation is ill-advised.
    Very well said.

  9. #9
    thaijinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Our typical Multi-Vitamin only contains 150 mcg so we need more from supplements or from foods that naturally contain iodine. Seaweed is best.

    We take a daily natural supplement called Norwegian Kelp, and we eat a bowl of seaweed soup weekly.
    I like the idea of a seaweed soup once a week. Thanks for the idea... I might incorporate that into my diet, just to make sure I'm getting enough iodine. Do you have a good recipe Grizz?

    Symptoms of Iodine Deficiency:
    * Fatigue
    * Depression
    * Modest weight gain
    * Cold intolerance
    * Excessive sleepiness
    * Dry, coarse hair
    * Constipation
    * Dry skin
    * Muscle cramps
    * Increased cholesterol levels
    * Decreased concentration
    * Vague aches and pains
    * Swelling of the legs
    Iodine Deficiency | University of Michigan Health System
    Gosh, I have all of those apart from the swollen legs! I'm not going to be self-diagnosing, but I will take a look at that list of foods high in iodine. Funny though, the list of symptoms sounds like a lot of my older female friends too!

  10. #10
    thaijinx's Avatar
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    PrimalCon New York
    Here in Thailand, they sell a 'fried' seaweed snack. (Big sheets of delicious seaweed, but unfortunately fried, and sometimes containing flavourings and msg).

    I love to eat it - the problem is, most of them are friend in vegetable oils. I did manage to find one once, fried in palm oil, but I have since given up eating it as a snack because of the flavourings.

    What are your thoughts on eating seaweed like this Grizz? Is it an adequate source?

    Also, I notice that 'dried seaweed' is a good source, but does it matter which type? A quick google search has bought up 'wakame', 'nori', 'kelp'. Is one better than the others?

    Thanks
    Last edited by thaijinx; 01-10-2012 at 05:42 PM.

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