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Thread: Fat/carb ratios - our current diet goes against all we have been taught. page

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    ancestral_stars's Avatar
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    Question Fat/carb ratios - our current diet goes against all we have been taught.

    Primal Fuel
    Greetings. I have just introduced myself and my bf in the intro thread. We are old newbies to this primal way of life. I have done mountains of reading on the primal and paleo lifestyles and he has been following low carb (and by accident) a fairly primal diet for a few years.

    I have been tweeking our ratios and lifestyle ideas and feel like we are close to optimal but I still have questions. I learned and enjoyed my time in the paleo community a great deal. However it seemed like there was a trend towards eliminating foods until a person eats nothing but animal guts and kale (exaggeration to be sure but still I often saw topics titled "do we even need to eat plants"..). That kind of restriction and thinking does not fit with us. So I am hoping that the primal way of thinking will fit better.

    Currently we are seeking guidance in carb/fat ratios. I know that up to 100 carbs should be ok but it seems almost too decadent to be true. Bf and I are eating (general daily diet- not exact just an overview)

    Breakfast:
    Eggs and uncured beef bacon + - peppers

    Lunch/dinner:
    Roast, chicken, ground beef, salmon etc with either kale or-
    root vegtables such as Turnip, beets, rutabaga, parsnips, radishes and occasionally carrots

    I cook the root veg in chicken fat or roast fat and ghee.

    -- OR "spaghetti" made with spaghetti squash, ground beef, NO sugar added marinara (made with only olive oil and other organic real ingredients- at trader joes), zucchini, peppers etc

    We eat cheese but are really cutting down now that we discovered vit D supplements and no longer feel an extreme craving for dairy (vit d added). I eat kiwis off and on and berries but I dont stress over it. I do not go crazy with them.

    We kind of go with what veg feels "right'. It is different in spring/summer/fall than winter. We eat a lot more lower starch veg in other seasons.

    So I guess I am just having a hard time believing that full fat meat with starchy veg cooked in ghee/animal fat is ok. It tastes too darn good to be good for us (isnt that always the rule). Sooo much fat and what feels like a decent dose of starch?

    Plus bf lost weight by following a basically no carb diet for years. I am worried that by adding these carbs he will stall or not make his goal. He is extremely active and diligent with workouts but needs to drop below a certain measurement for entering the military. I think he is healthy this way.. but that is beyond the point. Thoughts?
    Last edited by ancestral_stars; 01-04-2012 at 10:36 PM.

  2. #2
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
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    You think 100g of carbs a day is decadent? Why do you think carbs are bad?

    Grains are generally unhealthy. I think we can all agree with that statement. However, just because wheat is bad for you and wheat is a carbohydrate doesn't make carbohydrates evil. How would you feel if I said because canola and soybean oil are bad for you than fats are bad for you? I think A LOT of people would have a problem with that statement, right? So why associate the same logic with carbs?

    Historically, the oldest humans lived in regions along the equator. It was warmer. Food was more plentiful. And food grew all year long. There were always copious amounts of fruits and vegetables to fall back on when the hunt went bad. Some days, they may not have even gone hunting if they didn't feel like it. If Grok found a giant bunch of bananas, he would not discriminate. He would eat hundreds of grams of carbohydrate until he fell asleep, and he'd be thrilled to do it again. This isn't unnatural. What's unnatural is sugar and grains as they all require lots of processing just to be edible on a basic level.

    There were no "macronutrient" ratios. Just apply logic to it. Grok didn't have a fridge, so he couldn't store lots of food to have a four course meal. He probably ate one thing - either they killed an animal and ate all meat or the hunt failed and ate all fruits or tubers. Magically, we get the fattest when we combine carbohydrate AND fat in a single sitting - our body burns the carbs and stores the dietary fat. My guess is this is because we probably rarely combined carbs and fat in meals historically - it was one or the other. So yes, you can have some days where you enjoy copious amounts of carbohydrate. That is natural. Just keep fats very low on those days. I regularly have days where I eclipse 300g of carbohydrate, but I just make sure to keep fats under 40g on those days (usually in the 20-30g range). My go-to meal post-workout is 99% lean ground turkey (2g fat/pound) and two pounds of sweet potatoes cut into fries and baked (no fat added). It's helped me cut a good bit of body fat eating like this.

    Also, figure your biological history into things. If you're white, you probably come from a colder climate than someone who is black. A black person would ancestrally be from a warmer climate, meaning they probably evolved eating more carbohydrate than a white person, who for many months of the year had to survive only on animal products as it was too cold for plants to grow. It's my opinion that black people would perform better on a higher carbohydrate diet than white people. It's probably no coincidence that white people carry extra weight much more poorly than black people and seem to balloon up more easily on the high carbohydrate SAD. Just some observations I've made.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    john_e_turner_ii's Avatar
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    "You people"? What do you mean by "You people"?

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    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
    "You people"? What do you mean by "You people"?
    What do YOU mean "You people"?
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    You will find threads such as 'do we even need plants' around here as well. You will find people restricting there food a lot. Though this is not really the primal philosofy. You say that this is not for you, then don't.

    Primal in it's origin is about eating real, whole, unprocessed food. It's basically paleo with a smart view on it instead of just going for what our ancesters ate. Vegetables are good for you, doesn't matter if it's leavy greens or colorfull root vegetables. So is fruit, you might not want to eat three pineapples a day but one once in a while won't hurt you, and there's totally no need to limit berry's really. And meat is good, but you already figured that out I see. Primal is about enjoying the foods nature gives you. Heck, there even is a 80/20 rule so you won't feel limited. Want some full fat yoghurt with those berry's? Go for it, nothing wrong with that. Some cheese over that home made bolognese sauce? Perfect. As long as all the food you eat is completely or really close to natural it's not going to make you fat (unless ofcourse you keep on eating when your full day after day) or unhealthy, all these foods have health benefits.

    And with almost completely natural I aim for things such as cheese, yoghurt and tomato paste. You might not find these things in nature directly, but just puree-ing some tomatoes (which technically is processing) won't make it bad for your health all the sudden . Thats where the smart thing kicks in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    What do YOU mean "You people"?
    Haha. Actually, your assessment was a good one about the diets based on race and geographical location. The you people thing just hit me after I read it and thought it was funny.

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    Nice post. I'm interested in what you said about mixing fats and carbs, maybe thats what im doing wrong. Where can I find more info on this subject. Thx a bunch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
    Haha. Actually, your assessment was a good one about the diets based on race and geographical location. The you people thing just hit me after I read it and thought it was funny.
    Am I the only one that didn't like Tropic Thunder outside of Robert Downey Jr.'s character? He was great but I can't stand Ben Stiller for more than 2 minutes.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amonkeywasmyuncle View Post
    Nice post. I'm interested in what you said about mixing fats and carbs, maybe thats what im doing wrong. Where can I find more info on this subject. Thx a bunch!
    You're not really "doing it wrong." Eating steak and sweet potatoes cooked in ghee will make you put on body fat faster, but only if you're "overeating". If you're taking in what your body needs or less, you're not going to put on any body fat. If you choose to overeat with any sort of regularity, it's better to keep your fats and carbs separate. But you have to ask yourself what your goals are. If you're trying to lose body fat, then I'd keep them separately. If you're just going for overall health, then you can mix them. Just because you put on a little fat doesn't make you unhealthy. There are plenty of body builders out there that count calories and cycle macronutrients like crazy to get down to a shredded 6% body fat eating Snickers bars and frozen yogurt. You'll be far healthier than them sitting pretty at 15% body fat eating real foods. If your goal is overall health, enjoy your meals. If that means steak and potatoes, eat steak and potatoes.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Also, figure your biological history into things. If you're white, you probably come from a colder climate than someone who is black. A black person would ancestrally be from a warmer climate, meaning they probably evolved eating more carbohydrate than a white person, who for many months of the year had to survive only on animal products as it was too cold for plants to grow. It's my opinion that black people would perform better on a higher carbohydrate diet than white people. It's probably no coincidence that white people carry extra weight much more poorly than black people and seem to balloon up more easily on the high carbohydrate SAD. Just some observations I've made.
    I've always wondered the same thing, actually. What would you consider for Asians? Mid-eastern area.

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