Page 384 of 415 FirstFirst ... 284334374382383384385386394 ... LastLast
Results 3,831 to 3,840 of 4145

Thread: Iodine Anyone? page 384

  1. #3831
    cori93437's Avatar
    cori93437 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    central FL
    Posts
    6,949
    Shop Now
    Something a few pages back sparked my interest...
    The relationship between Brownstein and Abraham, and the mention of the fact that Abrahams is making money off of promoting iodine(not a negative in and of itself, but a point of interest).
    It appears that Abraham was first on the iodine front, after a period of promoting another mineral pretty heavily(Magnesium).
    I have been wary of Brownstein previously for some of his misuse of context with cited sources, and the fact that Abraham's name appears so often on the same documents raised flags for me as well...

    So... I did a little digging.
    Not a ton at this point as I'm pretty sick today... but,
    Both Abraham AND Brownstein are paid "research doctors" for VRP, Vitamin Research Products.
    Along with another doctor, Dr. Flechas, who also appears on some of their documents.

    Dr. Abraham produces Idoral under trademark via Opitmox of course...

    However, I went through the list of other 'research doctors' there.
    Dr. Mitchell A. Fleisher has a few copywrited vitamin/mineral natural formulas as well...
    As does Dr. Tim Guilford...
    And Dr. Eric Hassid.
    I didn't check out the ND's... I figured the trend with just the MD's was strong enough.

    Here is a link to their "Meet the Doctors" page... http://www.vrp.com/meet-the-doctors
    *Note: the message with the picture of the generic 'smiling friendly doctor people' picture on the right as you scroll down a bit...
    "Meet VRP's Team of Doctors!"
    (pic here)
    "Curious about the brilliant minds
    behind our scientific formulas?"

    Anyway, what I found on that site (and via other googling) was this.
    These 'good' doctors are basically getting PAID to promote supplements.
    All of them, including Brownstein.
    Both their own protected proprietary supplements, the proprietary supplements of the other 'research' doctors, and the general supplements sold by the company that are 'better' that the competitions generic supplements.

    This is a bunch of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours hornswaggle.
    I equate this type of behavior from Doctors to those other 'Doctors' who pimp themselves out on late night infomercials selling miracle weight-loss supplements and 'make your penis bigger' libido pills.
    The crazy thing is that those late night infomercial doctors ARE Doctors... just like ambulance chasers are Lawyers.
    They just have no morals.
    Brownstein and Abraham tarnish their own reputations by resorting to this sort of behavior.
    It's truly disgusting and disturbing IMO.
    Last edited by cori93437; 07-25-2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: forgot link
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  2. #3832
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by winencandy View Post
    I read the rebuttals. Was no one else surprised to read this??:
    Rebuttal: Gaby editorial on iodine (October 2005)

    <creationist young earther rational for using mega doses of iodine>

    by Guy E. Abraham, MD and David Brownstein, MD,
    and not think "Seriously?"
    Quote Originally Posted by chronyx View Post
    Whoa. Thanks for this.
    I don't know who to believe any more!
    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    Thanks for pointing this out - can't take Abrahams and Brownstein seriously now!
    Everyone has the right to their own religious beliefs but if they are basing the reason for taking iodine on a belief system I don't subscribe to, it makes me question. why do you need religious faith to justify taking iodine? Can't you make your case on the science?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radialhead View Post
    Indeed, so much for evidence based science. The bit that really stood out though was "Guy E. Abraham, M.D. is the owner of the company that developed and distributes Iodoral". That would explain why the ATP Cofactors are the only allowed form of Vit. B under the protocol, what with them being made by the same company.

    Which isn't to say we shouldn't be supplementing with iodine, but you can't take anything Brownstein says at face value, given his association with the person who stands to gain the most financially from everyone taking lots of iodine.
    Follow the money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    Iodine is a completely harmless substance?. So I can drink 5 bottles of iodine and it's totally fine it will just pass out in my urine with zero risk? Making reckless claims like that that could potentially influence newbies that could be reading this thread is pretty irresponsible, imo.

    There's lots of things that can be harmless or even beneficial short term that could even cause things tumors or cancer 20 years down the line. I can understand people taking the risk in certain situations where they have nothing to lose and have exhausted all other options, but from threads I've seen you seem to be recommending high dose iodine to everyone for basically anything and everything.



    Yes, my BSometer goes off if any one substance has a laundry list of all of the ailments of mankind that it purports to "cure".

    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    Iodine can cause significant side effects in some people. Common side effects include nausea and stomach pain, runny nose, headache, metallic taste, and diarrhea.

    In sensitive people, iodine can cause side effects including swelling of the lips and face (angioedema), severe bleeding and bruising, fever, joint pain, lymph node enlargement, allergic reactions including hives, and death.

    Large amounts or long-term use of iodine are POSSIBLY UNSAFE. Adults should avoid prolonged use of doses higher than 1100 mcg per day (the upper tolerable limit, UL) without proper medical supervision. In children, doses should not exceed 200 mcg per day for children 1 to 3 years old, 300 mcg per day for children 4 to 8 years old, 600 mcg per day for children 9 to 13 years old, and 900 mcg per day for adolescents. These are the upper tolerable limits (UL).

    In both children and adults, there is concern that higher intake can increase the risk of side effects such as thyroid problems. Iodine in larger amounts can cause metallic taste, soreness of teeth and gums, burning in mouth and throat, increased saliva, throat inflammation, stomach upset, diarrhea, wasting, depression, skin problems, and many other side effects.
    [/I]

    “High-dose iodine therapy is of great value in some circumstances. We should not forget, however, that this treatment was abandoned in the past, because it caused many deaths from heart failure,

    Please speak with your physician prior to taking any high dose iodine supplementation, especially if you are suffering from an autoimmune disease such as Hashimoto’s, as the iodine may actually cause a severe immune reaction and even destruction of the thyroid gland.
    [/I]
    I think for the overall healthy person, taking high doses is taking needless risks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    There's actually quite a bit of research (and I mean real scientific research, not forum posts or random websites) that illustrates significant risks from chronically elevated iodine doses. While iodine deficiency is not good either, it's a case where while some is beneficial, more is not necessarily so. I'm concerned when people say things like "well, I take a lot of it and feel fine" because long-term toxicity can take a while to emerge.

    It is vitally important to be aware that taking too much of something beneficial can become harmful. Long-term high doses of iodine may cause significant and potentially irreversible health problems, including permanent damage to the thyroid.
    Thank you Owly and breadsauce.

    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    And here we have it - you are recommending that people take the amount recommended by Dr Brownstein - 50 mg daily. Mega dose. Daily.
    The recommendations that I have read and feel safe with is no more than 1.1 mg, daily. Or about 7.7 per week. And yes, it is from a Doctor who recommends this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    50mg is a mega-dose of iodine by accepted standards. The standard upper daily limit recommended by most sources is 1100mcg, or 1.1mg. Even when you look at iodine doses consumed in some places such as Japan where food source iodine intake is much higher, we see intakes of 1-3mg per day by the most recent research results (Assessment of Japanese iodine intake based on seaweed consumption in Japan: A literature-based analysis).

    I am wary of any protocol that would suggest dietary intakes vastly beyond what is found in a normal human diet even in a high-iodine region.

    I am far more confident in the results of numerous controlled studies published in credible journals than I am in one internet doctor's advice.

    And you don't just pee out excess iodine. Iodine toxicity is real, and its symptoms can look very much like the "iodine detox" symptoms discussed on this thread. I worry that people are overdosing on iodine and then being led to believe that their symptoms are a sign that they're getting healthier when the "detox" is actually evidence of real harm being done to the body.
    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Here's a sensible alternative: take .5 to 1mg daily depending on the iodine level in your diet, or better, add additional iodine-containing foods such as seafood and seaweeds since we are all at least supposedly interested in a whole-foods diet around here. I don't need an elaborate protocol to do that--my doctor is absolutely supportive of eating more fish for your health.

    Don't let a shouty man on a forum bully you into taking large doses of something just because one internet doctor says so.

    I don't take any prescription without thorough research of my own into the potential effects and an assessment of whether I am comfortable with those risks. I suggest anyone considering any "iodine protocol" do the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    My advice is to newbees - consult your doctor (an actual personal doctor face-to-face who's in a position to be diagnosing you and checking your medical background, not an online doctor you have never met who is in no position to be diagnosing you of anything) before considering high dosages way over the generally accepted tolerable and safe amount. Until then don't put your health into the hands of online doctors selling iodine supplements because this stuff can have serious and chronic side effects and shouldn't be haphazardly experimented with. If you aren't getting any dietary iodine take some kelp tablets like I do or other small dosages because high dosages can not only be extremely risky short term, but the long term effects seem to be unknown.
    I could easily see some easily influenced people who are new to this lifestyle who might start these iodine supplement protocols simply because they think that's what everyone on this forum is doing. Without knowing their medical background it could have disastrous health consequences for some.
    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    From what I have read - and it is on the links that I have provided - a dose as low as 500 mcg daily will saturate the thyroid within a couple of weeks and then gradually replace the other halides in the body with iodine. So yes, it will work, and without taking risks with my health.

    Incidentally, your habit of writing things in huge letters, bold, is effectively yelling and ranting. Not polite - you are irritating LOTS of people on this thread and I think it is time you learned to stop this trolling behaviour.
    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    And this is an IODINE thread - not a Brownstein thread - so everyone is allowed to state their opinion, which carries equal weight. It doesn't mean that they a troll - or complaining.
    For those of you who are not on a coastline but wanting a little taste of the ocean, these are really yummy
    seasnax.com
    They are crunchy seaweed munchies (the only oil involved is olive and no chemicals). Very tasty.

  3. #3833
    Hoss2626's Avatar
    Hoss2626 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    27
    From the link from Grizz's post above, an interesting paragraph:

    "Too much iodine for too long can suppress thyroid function. Many of the uses described for SSKI in the accompanying article are short-term, from a few days or less to a week or two. If SSKI is then stopped, there’s almost no chance of significant thyroid suppression. However, if SSKI is to be used for two to three weeks or longer, and especially if it’s to be used continuously (for example, COPD or cholesterol-related atherosclerosis) monitoring thyroid function is very important. To find a physician near you who can help order and interpret thyroid function tests contact Meridian Valley Lab."

    He goes on to say that "nine drops or less" he has rarely seen this problem. Not sure what a drop means here.

  4. #3834
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Both Abraham AND Brownstein are paid "research doctors" for VRP, Vitamin Research Products.
    Along with another doctor, Dr. Flechas, who also appears on some of their documents.

    Dr. Abraham produces Idoral under trademark via Opitmox of course...

    Anyway, what I found on that site was this.
    These good doctos are basically getting paid to promote supplements.
    Both their own protected proprietary supplements, the proprietary supplements of the other 'research' doctors, and the general supplements sold by the company that are 'better' that the competitions generic supplements.

    This is a bunch of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours hornswaggle.
    I equate this type of behavior from Doctors to those other 'Doctors' who pimp themselves out on late night infomercials selling miracle weight-loss supplements and 'make your penis bigger' libido pills.
    The crazy thing is that those late night infomercial doctors ARE Doctors... just like ambulance chasers are Lawyers.
    They just have no morals.
    Brownstein and Abraham tarnish their own reputations by resorting to this sort of behavior.
    It's truly disgusting and disturbing IMO.
    Yes, it is. And anyone who believes their word as gospel needs a dose of .........YOU!

    I think I'll patent your sensible research and advice and put it in a bottle. I'll split the profits with you, OK? I am a real live doctor (ok, the university kind not the medical kind) so I can claim Dr. Paleobird's patented anti-gullibility formula.

    I hope you're feeling better soon. Hugs.

  5. #3835
    Grizz's Avatar
    Grizz is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,879
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss2626 View Post
    From the link from Grizz's post above, an interesting paragraph:

    "Too much iodine for too long can suppress thyroid function. Many of the uses described for SSKI in the accompanying article are short-term, from a few days or less to a week or two. If SSKI is then stopped, there’s almost no chance of significant thyroid suppression. However, if SSKI is to be used for two to three weeks or longer, and especially if it’s to be used continuously (for example, COPD or cholesterol-related atherosclerosis) monitoring thyroid function is very important. To find a physician near you who can help order and interpret thyroid function tests contact Meridian Valley Lab."

    He goes on to say that "nine drops or less" he has rarely seen this problem. Not sure what a drop means here.
    Hoss,

    We don't take SSKI. SSKI = Super Saturated Iodide.

    We take Lugols or Iodoral which contains Iodide.

    Big difference between SSKI and KI

    Grizz

  6. #3836
    Grizz's Avatar
    Grizz is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,879
    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Something a few pages back sparked my interest...
    The relationship between Brownstein and Abraham, and the mention of the fact that Abrahams is making money off of promoting iodine(not a negative in and of itself, but a point of interest).
    It appears that Abraham was first on the iodine front, after a period of promoting another mineral pretty heavily(Magnesium).
    I have been wary of Brownstein previously for some of his misuse of context with cited sources, and the fact that Abraham's name appears so often on the same documents raised flags for me as well...

    So... I did a little digging.
    Not a ton at this point as I'm pretty sick today... but,
    Both Abraham AND Brownstein are paid "research doctors" for VRP, Vitamin Research Products.
    Along with another doctor, Dr. Flechas, who also appears on some of their documents.

    Dr. Abraham produces Idoral under trademark via Opitmox of course...

    However, I went through the list of other 'research doctors' there.
    Dr. Mitchell A. Fleisher has a few copywrited vitamin/mineral natural formulas as well...
    As does Dr. Tim Guilford...
    And Dr. Eric Hassid.
    I didn't check out the ND's... I figured the trend with just the MD's was strong enough.

    Here is a link to their "Meet the Doctors" page... Meet The Doctors
    *Note: the message with the picture of the generic 'smiling friendly doctor people' picture on the right as you scroll down a bit... "Meet VRP's Team of Doctors!"
    (pic here)
    "Curious about the brilliant minds
    behind our scientific formulas?"

    Anyway, what I found on that site was this.
    These doctos are basically getting PAID to promote supplements.
    All of them, including Brownstein.
    Both their own protected proprietary supplements, the proprietary supplements of the other 'research' doctors, and the general supplements sold by the company that are 'better' that the competitions generic supplements.

    This is a bunch of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours hornswaggle.
    I equate this type of behavior from Doctors to those other 'Doctors' who pimp themselves out on late night infomercials selling miracle weight-loss supplements and 'make your penis bigger' libido pills.
    The crazy thing is that those late night infomercial doctors ARE Doctors... just like ambulance chasers are Lawyers.
    They just have no morals.
    Brownstein and Abraham tarnish their own reputations by resorting to this sort of behavior.
    It's truly disgusting and disturbing IMO.
    Cori is CRYING and COMPLAINING again. When are you going to stop FLAMING this message thread?

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 07-25-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  7. #3837
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Cori is CRYING and COMPLAINING again.
    Grizz
    No, she is speaking the truth again and like Jack Nicholsen said, "You can't handle the truth".

  8. #3838
    breadsauce's Avatar
    breadsauce is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    2,123
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Hoss,



    I think the Nit Pickers are all LIBERALS. The Hallmark of a LIBERAL is they demand that everyone do it THEIR way.



    Isn't it FUN?

    Grizz
    And isn't this just perfect irony!!! The only one on this entire thread who demands that everyone does things their way is ----- GRIZZ !! A LIBERAL then - if ever I saw one.

    Grow up, Grizz!!!

  9. #3839
    cori93437's Avatar
    cori93437 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    central FL
    Posts
    6,949
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Cori is CRYING and COMPLAINING again.

    Grizz
    Nope...
    I'm saying that the research that they present may be heavily skewed to line their pockets... and therefore pretty invalid.
    Actual moral research doctors who do studies on supplements, drugs, medical devices etc. have no dog in the hunt.
    If a doctor invents something he can do studies himself, but to have validity they must be repeated by impartial parties under controlled circumstances (double blind etc).
    They distill information and present it.
    That is how it should be.
    If that information is skewed before release to the public it is done by the big corporations trying to make profits, not the guy in the lab.

    I think that the fact that these doctors who are so highly promoted here are associating themselves with practices that are the equivalent of late night infomercial shills and snake-oil salesmen, is completely relevant information to anyone coming to this thread to learn about iodine. Every person should have all of the available information. Not just one, very skewed, side of it.

    No flaming. I encourage everyone to look at ALL of the information themselves.
    Last edited by cori93437; 07-25-2012 at 01:53 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  10. #3840
    Pamsc's Avatar
    Pamsc is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    356
    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    There's actually quite a bit of research (and I mean real scientific research, not forum posts or random websites) that illustrates significant risks from chronically elevated iodine doses. While iodine deficiency is not good either, it's a case where while some is beneficial, more is not necessarily so. I'm concerned when people say things like "well, I take a lot of it and feel fine" because long-term toxicity can take a while to emerge.

    I'm not telling people they shouldn't take iodine--I realize that there are reasons to supplement, and I've read some compelling evidence in credible journals for moderate supplementation particularly for those who don't use iodized salt or consume seafood/seaweed regularly. But it is vitally important to be aware that taking too much of something beneficial can become harmful. Long-term high doses of iodine may cause significant and potentially irreversible health problems, including permanent damage to the thyroid.

    Iodine Toxicity and Its Amelioration

    High thyroid volume in children with excess dietary iodine intakes

    Effects of Chronic Iodine Excess in a Cohort of Long-Term American Workers in West Africa

    https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2010/...erious-thyroid

    [Hyperthyroidism induced by amiodarone and hypert... [Ann Pathol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

    Iodine-induced delirium - Hara - 2004 - Human Psychopharmacology: Clinical and Experimental - Wiley Online Library

    Iodine-Induced Hyperthyroidism: Occurrence and Epidemiology | Abstract

    :: YMJ :: Yonsei Medical Journal

    http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/39/5/478.pdf
    I haven't looked at all of these, but those I looked at don't leave me overly concerned. Many involve much more dangerous forms of iodine, like amiodarone. Others involve iodine causing (or exacerbating) autoimmune thyroid damage, which we know can happen if you take iodine without selenium. The Peace Corps workers were in Niger, which a quick google search suggests is an area of low selenium.
    __________________________
    age 56, type 2 diabetes, swimmer
    low carb since 2006 thanks to Jenny, primal since Jan. 2012

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •