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  1. #3801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    50mg is a mega-dose of iodine by accepted standards. The standard upper daily limit recommended by most sources is 1100mcg, or 1.1mg. Even when you look at iodine doses consumed in some places such as Japan where food source iodine intake is much higher, we see intakes of 1-3mg per day by the most recent research results (Assessment of Japanese iodine intake based on seaweed consumption in Japan: A literature-based analysis).

    I am wary of any protocol that would suggest dietary intakes vastly beyond what is found in a normal human diet even in a high-iodine region. You are talking about a dose approximately *fifty times* the suggested daily maximum for most people. Yes, higher doses are used to treat particular conditions such as fibrocystic breast disease (Iodine replacement in fibrocystic disease of the ... [Can J Surg. 1993] - PubMed - NCBI) but high doses do come with risks which are well documented in a sizeable body of peer-reviewed research, some of which I cited above.

    I am not opposed to iodine supplements, but I think the Brownstein protocol looks very risky in light of the journal articles I have read examining the risks of high doses of iodine. I am far more confident in the results of numerous controlled studies published in credible journals than I am in one internet doctor's advice.

    And you don't just pee out excess iodine. Iodine toxicity is real, and its symptoms can look very much like the "iodine detox" symptoms discussed on this thread. I worry that people are overdosing on iodine and then being led to believe that their symptoms are a sign that they're getting healthier when the "detox" is actually evidence of real harm being done to the body.
    I really wanted to bold all of this post, but time and again ^ this bold part comes into my mind. I must look at the multiple links you provided in a prior post, but for a while now I, too, read about the 'detox' effects listed by some folk and worry/wonder how many might possibly be caused by toxic levels of iodine. I hope other open-minded people discuss this, too.

    Thx for posting this, Owly.

  2. #3802
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    Here's a sensible alternative: take .5 to 1mg daily depending on the iodine level in your diet, or better, add additional iodine-containing foods such as seafood and seaweeds since we are all at least supposedly interested in a whole-foods diet around here. I don't need an elaborate protocol to do that--my doctor is absolutely supportive of eating more fish for your health.

    My suggestion is to not follow Brownstein simply because Grizz is pushing it. Go out, read real, peer-reviewed, properly conducted research (not just CureZone, for the love of little baby ducks!) and decide what you think is a safe dose. Talk to your doctor. Read information on both sides. Then decide if the Brownstein protocol seems like a good idea for you or if a more conservative approach seems safer and more sensible.

    Don't let a shouty man on a forum bully you into taking large doses of something just because one internet doctor says so. Do your research and realize that taking large quantities of anything may be problematic and should not be done without some significant research into the potential risks and benefits of a given treatment protocol.

    I don't take any prescription without thorough research of my own into the potential effects and an assessment of whether I am comfortable with those risks. I suggest anyone considering any "iodine protocol" do the same.
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  3. #3803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    You are the one making reckless claims:
    * NO ONE recommends taking 5 bottles of iodine. That is YOU spouting off
    * NO ONE recommends "taking daily mega-doses of iodine" Dr. Brownstein recommends only 50mg daily
    * I recommend people starting iodine on extremely LOW DOSES
    - - - Mix 1 drop 2% Lugols into bottles of water, put the caps back on.
    - - - Week 1 drink 1 oz (~30ml) daily (about 380mcg iodone)
    - - - Week 2 drink 2 oz (~60ml) daily (about 775mcg iodine)
    - - - Week 3 drink 4 oz (~120ml) daily ( about 1.5mg iodine)
    - - - Week 4 drink 6 oz (~180ml) daily ( about 2.3mg iodine)
    - - - Week 5 drink 8 oz (~220ml) daily ( about 3.1 mg iodine or about 1 drop per day),
    - - - Week 6 drink 2 drops per day in a glass of water
    - - - Week 7 drink 3 drops per day in a glass of water
    - - - Week 8 drink 4 drops per day (about 12.5mg = to 1 iodoral)
    * Next, Titrate up with iodoral 12.5mg iodine tablets available at Amazon.Com
    - - - add 1/2 tablet each month to eventually reach 50mg daily-refer to Dr. Brownstein’s Book
    - - - 50mg Daily is the dosage target recommended by Dr. Brownstein to overcome toxins
    * If any detox symptoms appear do the salt flush and pulse dose. (all listed below)

    So, as you can see, all of your claims are DEAD WRONG

    Lets hear what YOUR advice is to newbees.
    * Which doctor protocol should they follow?
    * How do you recommend they get iodine into their body?
    * What is your recommended dosage?

    Grizz
    I was asking YOU if you thought 5 bottles is fine theoretically (which I'm obviously aware it is not) because you stated excess iodine just gets disposed of, which just isn't true.

    50mg IS a mega dose and I was asking you whether or not you have any evidence of the long term safety and effects of such dosages. It sounds as though you don't.
    My advice is to newbees - consult your doctor (an actual personal doctor face-to-face who's in a position to be diagnosing you and checking your medical background, not an online doctor you have never met who is in no position to be diagnosing you of anything) before considering high dosages way over the generally accepted tolerable and safe amount. Until then don't put your health into the hands of online doctors selling iodine supplements because this stuff can have serious and chronic side effects and shouldn't be haphazardly experimented with. If you aren't getting any dietary iodine take some kelp tablets like I do or other small dosages because high dosages can not only be extremely risky short term, but the long term effects seem to be unknown.
    I could easily see some easily influenced people who are new to this lifestyle who might start these iodine supplement protocols simply because they think that's what everyone on this forum is doing. Without knowing their medical background it could have disastrous health consequences for some.


    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Here's a sensible alternative: take .5 to 1mg daily depending on the iodine level in your diet, or better, add additional iodine-containing foods such as seafood and seaweeds since we are all at least supposedly interested in a whole-foods diet around here. I don't need an elaborate protocol to do that--my doctor is absolutely supportive of eating more fish for your health.

    My suggestion is to not follow Brownstein simply because Grizz is pushing it. Go out, read real, peer-reviewed, properly conducted research (not just CureZone, for the love of little baby ducks!) and decide what you think is a safe dose. Talk to your doctor. Read information on both sides. Then decide if the Brownstein protocol seems like a good idea for you or if a more conservative approach seems safer and more sensible.

    Don't let a shouty man on a forum bully you into taking large doses of something just because one internet doctor says so. Do your research and realize that taking large quantities of anything may be problematic and should not be done without some significant research into the potential risks and benefits of a given treatment protocol.

    I don't take any prescription without thorough research of my own into the potential effects and an assessment of whether I am comfortable with those risks. I suggest anyone considering any "iodine protocol" do the same.
    ^This.
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 07-25-2012 at 08:20 AM.

  4. #3804
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    Quote Originally Posted by chahaya View Post
    @Grizz: Quick question...I am quite sure you have answered it before. This is the dosage mentioned. Do I need to up all the rest (selenium, magnesium and ester-C) accordingly if I up the iodine? Only ATP co-factors is mentioned.

    * ½ tsp Natural Salt in water: Celtic Gray, Himalayan Pink, Hawaii Black, Redmonds Salt
    - - - If the sea salt is pure white, it is unacceptable ( minerals have been stripped out )
    * 200 mcg selenium (L-selenomethionine preferred)
    * 400 mg Magnesium - Glycinate preferred
    * 2,000mg Vitamin C - Ester-C preferred
    * ATP Cofactors caplets by Optomix - Take 1/2 caplet up to 25mg iodine, then one caplet for each 50 mg iodine

    By the way, thanks for your constant nagging/reminders/preaching in this forum (they stuck with me... you will see how later in my post), and the wonderful job of collating the iodine information. I do do my own research, but I never bother to organize and save them the way like you do. Sometimes I read and I forget (and the links are often lost). I often go through your resources and refresh stuff, I often use that as a jumping point to find more stuff that interests me.

    I read about iodine long time ago. And I long suspected that is ONE of the factors of my breast cyst and uterine fibroids. I also believe my diet and lifestyle and personality are contributing factors (another post altogether). I don't get enough iodine even though I'm from an Asian country, as our diets are very Westernized, but just perhaps more than a regular American.

    I read about iodine while thinking of ways to treat my fibroids (cos' I don't want any invasive surgeries). There was one time between 10-7 months ago, I tried taking iodoral at 100mg a day. No reaction -- nothing good and nothing bad. I dropped it cos' it was bothersome (became another pill to take).

    A few weeks ago after doing another round of research, I chanced upon this thread, I read it with interest. I found your instructions tough, mainly because I don't live in the US, and getting the right co-supplements are difficult. Thus, I usually don't do things to a T. But one day, I decided to just order the stuff from iHerb just to try out the protocol. I figured I gave it a chance.

    Long story short. The package took forever to arrive, so I experimented with 12.5mg Iodoral, and some of the stuff that I have. I already have selenium (so that's not a problem), Vit C. I found out that I had B6 (OK, don't scold me, that was the only Vit B I had at the moment -- I was already imagining you lecturing me while I pop them in), and oil of magnesium (I sprayed on myself everywhere liberally). Within 30 mins, I had a reaction... I realized that I was scratching my neck (on my left) unknowingly. Quickly, I stopped myself and looked in the mirror, the lower left part of the neck was pinkish. I realized that it MIGHT be my thyroid reacting. Of course I stopped scratching and sprayed more mag oil and drank tons of salt water. The itch lessen and the pink faded. Then probably between 1 hr to 1.5 hours, I realized that my right side was itching. I looked into the mirror and realized that right side was pinkish and the line that connects to the left and right thyroid was pink too. Somehow I knew that it was working and that my thyroid loved the iodine (with the supplements). I also observed my pee was super brown (and that's even after drinking lots of salt water). My hands and feet are no longer cold. FYI, I had NO reaction when I took 100 mg/day months ago. Through this experiment, I felt that it confirmed that I was iodine deficient.

    Anyway, I did that on and off for the last week -- didn't want to overdo it since I my co-factors and mag gylcinate haven't arrived. The good news is I got home just now and found that my package have finally arrived after 2.5 weeks.

    Just want to let you know that I taken the recommended dosage! I am confident that I wouldn't die from iodine toxification -- I have once eaten a huge bowl of kelp vegetable soup last week while dosing on 12.5mg/day and doing Lugol's iodine painting on my breasts (cysts are still there but they are no longer painful). Iodine is water soluble, and excess of it is peed out.

    Of course, there are other diet, nutritional and lifestyle changes that I've implemented over the last 6 months that helped me tremendously. I have done several detox (liver cleanse) under the watchful eyes of my naturopath/ physiotherapist. Right now, I am confident iodine is one of the critical missing puzzle, and it is the right time to do it as I feel that the detox prepared my body and system to absorb and metabolize the iodine and co-supplements better. The only negative side effect is that I find that my hair is shedding more than I would like to -- which I think it might be the selenium. I wonder if that's a detox reaction.

    On reflection, I realized that I was exposing myself to tons of chemicals unknowingly (you will be shocked at the rate I was using household cleaners etc), unhealthy food (fried chicken, ramen, non-organic meats and caffeine) and lifestyle. For instance I had BELIEVED that fluoride is an essential thing for my teeth because that's what my dentist told me and it supported by advertisements. Or how my government justified why it's necessary to have chlorine in the water. I have no reason to question them cos' I trusted them completely and I believed I had better things to do. (Oh by the way, I also believed that margarine and canola oil was better too!). Well of course, look what happened.

    The cysts and fibroids are a wake-up call. Even though cysts and fibroids do not necessary mean cancer, the probability of it is enough for me to want reverse it, naturally and holistically. This is just my experience and my journey to reclaim my health. Pure opinion, and no scientific backing behind it. Of course, I am still seeing my regular doctor. They are good for doing ultrasounds and such. In fact I am due for my half-yearly followup this Friday, although it might be too early to see any significant changes from iodine. Some people, including some family members, skeptical and wanted me to go for conventional medical procedure -- an operation. I've checked with the doc on it, she can't guarantee that the fibroids won't grow back. To me, this is NOT solving the root of the problem, it's just merely getting rid of the symptoms.
    Chahaya,

    Thank you so much for your wonderful & inspiring message. You are an inspiration for everyone. It is WONDERFUL to hear that your fibrocystic breast pain is GONE so quickly. That is typical for nearly everyone reporting back to us, as you can see in our Testimonials in Iodine References. Everyone also reports that their FBD lumps & bumps melt away within 2 or 3 months. Fibroids typically take far longer to clear up. See the Testimonials on Fibroids & Uterus for more details.

    Now if only I can convince my daughter in law to start on iodine. She is the exact opposite of me.
    * She is Democrat, I am Republican
    * She LOVES Obummer, I despise Obummer
    * She is a FAR LEFT liberal, I am a FAR RIGHT conservative
    * She is a BIG SPENDER I am a saver
    * I like FOX News, she HATES Fox news
    So I'm afraid there is zero chance she will take my suggestion to start on iodine. I think she would rather get a double mastectomy than take any suggestions from me. I have convinced her sister to learn about iodine, so maybe she will listen to her sister, who is a retired nurse & retired drug salesman.

    Please keep us informed of your progress. I would LOVE to put your story into our Testimonials.
    Once again, many thanks for posting,
    Grizz

  5. #3805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    What doctor? What is his name & where is the link to his protocol?
    What are his required co-supplements?

    Yes, everyone knows that I recommend the Dr. Brownstein protocol. So what?
    Now give us the details to your doctor & his protocol, and I will list it as an alternative in Iodine References.

    We are all waiting on bated breath for your answer..

    Grizz
    I have posted my link twice already - you presumably haven't even bothered to read it. There are no co-factors - on sensibly small doses, none are needed bar good food and supplementing any vitamins or minerals which would show as being deficient on FitDay.

    The requirement for co-factors on your chosen protocol - themselves WAY over the RDA - indicate to me how misguided such mega doses are. Those who are well and simply want to take small amounts of iodine to cover all bases do not need the Brownstein protocol or potentially toxic megadoses.

    There are , incidentally, quite a number of REPUTABLE DOCTORS who recommend sensible doses of around 500mcg - 1.1 mg per day. 50 or more times lower than the doses you are recommending. Don't ask again who they are - do your own research - I and others have posted enough links which you totally ignore.

    And to go back to the point which I KEEP making - you are happy with your system, and you have posted enough links for others to make up their own minds as to whether or not they take Iodine at all, and if so, in what doses, and what other sups they want to take.

    You are happy being your own guinea pig. You don't have then authority to bully other people as you keep on doing. We are all grown ups on this forum, quite capable of making our own decisions based on the evidence available.

    And if, over time, your system DOES prove to have been less than perfect, I shall feel great sympathy, as I am sure you are giving your advice with best interests in heart.
    Last edited by breadsauce; 07-25-2012 at 08:21 AM.

  6. #3806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    I was asking YOU if you thought 5 bottles is fine theoretically (which I'm obviously aware it is not) because you stated excess iodine just gets disposed of, which just isn't true.

    50mg IS a mega dose and I was asking you whether or not you have any evidence of the long term safety and effects of such dosages. It sounds as though you don't.
    My advice is to newbees - consult your doctor (an actual personal doctor face-to-face who's in a position to be diagnosing you and checking your medical background, not an online doctor you have never met who is in no position to be diagnosing you of anything) before considering high dosages way over the generally accepted tolerable and safe amount. Until then don't put your health into the hands of online doctors selling iodine supplements because this stuff can have serious and chronic side effects and shouldn't be haphazardly experimented with. If you aren't getting any dietary iodine take some kelp tablets like I do or other small dosages because high dosages can not only be extremely risky short term, but the long term effects seem to be unknown.
    I suggest you take your complaints to Dr. Brownstein.

    You need to re-read message #7
    Disclaimer:
    ==============
    ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR OR LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL.
    If you use anything on this site without the guidance of a qualified health professional, it is at your own risk and responsibility.
    All information posted in this document is provided for educational purposes only and is not to be construed as medical advice. Only a licensed medical doctor can legally offer medical advice in the United States. These articles and text are simply a collection of information that is in the public domain; they should not be construed as representations or claims by Marks Daily Apple.com or of its members. No claims whatsoever can be made as to the specific benefits that might result from the use of any of the suggested nutrients, supports, opinions, supplements, articles and or applications. The information in this guide is offered without warranty, either express or implied and techniques described herein should not be employed to treat any serious ailment without prior consultation with a qualified healthcare professional..This document is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. For your own personal health, always consult with a qualified doctor or healthcare practitioner.
    So, as you can see, your advice and my advice are identical - SEE YOUR DOCTOR.
    The same disclaimer is found in Iodine References & in the Iodine 101 post.

    So, bottom line, you got nothing to offer in the way of a documented protocol, right?
    All you have is never ending COMPLAINING
    .
    Grizz

  7. #3807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post


    So, bottom line, you got nothing to offer in the way of a documented protocol, right?
    All you have is never ending COMPLAINING
    .
    Grizz
    He doesn't NEED a "documented protocol" taking SMALL amounts of iodine. They are small enough not to require co-factors. A sound and cautious approach.

  8. #3808
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    I have posted my link twice already - you presumably haven't even bothered to read it. There are no co-factors - on sensibly small doses, none are needed bar good food and supplementing any vitamins or minerals which would show as being deficient on FitDay.

    There are , incidentally, quite a number of REPUTABLE DOCTORS who recommend sensible doses of around 500mcg - 1.1 mg per day. 50 or more times lower than the doses you are recommending.

    You don't have then authority to bully other people as you keep on doing. We are all grown ups on this forum, quite capable of making our own decisions based on the evidence available.

    And if, over time, your system DOES prove to have been less than perfect, I shall feel great sympathy, as I am sure you are giving your advice with best interests in heart.
    Breadsauce,
    OK, your protocol is not more than 1mg of iodine and ZERO co-supplements. Now we know. I say go ahead and do your thing your way.

    That is what I tell everyone. Do it YOUR WAY at your own risk. And read the disclaimer.

    So you go ahead and promote YOUR protocol and I will continue promoting the Dr. Brownstein protocol. Any approach that gets iodine into your body is a good approach (at your own risk & see your doctor)

    Now stop complaining. You are irritating all of our members with your never ending complaining. We agree to disagree. You are the Low Dose Champion and I am the Dr. Brownstien follower. OK?

    Grizz

  9. #3809
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    If you don't like Dr. Brownstein, then what is your recommended alternative?
    I'm not going to recommend a 'protocol', if that's what you're asking. I don't have the data to know what does & doesn't work, & don't currently have the time to search for that data, other than what I already provided about how much iodine the Japanese get in their diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Do you have anything at all to offer?
    Yes - like the other 'trolls', I'm offering a bit of sanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    If not, then stop complaining.
    Makes a change from being called a troll I suppose. You really, really don't like people disagreeing with you do you?

  10. #3810
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    He doesn't NEED a "documented protocol" taking SMALL amounts of iodine. They are small enough not to require co-factors. A sound and cautious approach.
    I see problems with your protocol.

    1) Your advice of 1mg iodine is never going to detox anyone of the bromide, fluoride & chlorine toxins accumulated over the years.
    2) I seriously doubt that such a small amount of iodine will cure anyone's Fibrocystic Breasts.

    But that is your choice so go ahead and do your own thing.

    TO EACH THEIR OWN

    NOW stop complaining about those of us who choose to follow the Dr. Brownstein Protocol.
    You are the Low Dose Champion & I am in support of Dr. Brownstein.

    Grizz

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