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  1. #3691
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    I cannot consume any salt due to medical reasons...

    And I have a know history of severe reaction to B3 (ATP Cofactors = 100mg B2, 500mg B3) at even a moderate dose (the flushing- red itchy face/chest, complete with dizzyness, sudden drops in my BP which is already very low, and heart palpitations, nausea)... so I won't take that in any but the smallest amounts found in a normal multivitamin. NIACIN AND NIACINAMIDE VITAMIN B3: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD
    Last edited by cori93437; 07-23-2012 at 04:00 PM.
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  2. #3692
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    Quote Originally Posted by t2t View Post
    I wonder if the Chinese study included selenomethionine, especially selenomethionine which protects the thyroid when going to the larger doses?

    And does the fact that I have a weaker heart pump than normal make my taking larger doses all this time, unique for me versus one with a normal heart which would dis-clude me from this study?

    There are other Factors to consider before subclinical hypothyroidism is treated. It is considered a very mild form.

    Sub-Clinical Hypothyroidism - To Treat or Not? - Thyroid Problems: Information About Thyroid Disease, Hypothyroidism, Hyperthyroidism and Thyroid Disorders on MedicineNet.com

    So if one tries iodine supplication, small or large, bloodwork to check for overall thyroid health is paramount. I don't know all the answers for everyone but I know what works for me.

    t2t
    Thanks for your response. I don't know how your heart condition would affect your thyroid. Having bloodwork to monitor your thyroid sounds like excellent advice.

    Here's another paper "Subclinical Hypothyroidism Is Mild Thyroid Failure and Should be Treated", which could be of relevance to this thread. It is older than the article you linked to there, but it showed that about 1/3 of the time subclinical hypothyroidism progresses into hypothyroidism.

    Now, I'm not saying this to be alarmist. But it would be good if these two papers (and the earlier one I linked to which showed the subclinical hypothyroidism in basically anyone taking significant amounts of Iodine) could be written up, maybe in a 'Potential side effects' section.

    Along with the rash, which I understand is a side effect of bromine being flushed out. Yes?
    Last edited by magicmerl; 07-23-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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  3. #3693
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizzychan5 View Post
    snipped
    what negativity about iodine?

    because i haven't seen ANY
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  4. #3694
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Several posts have been made recently that have noted some of the problems with high doses of iodine in addition to the rashes etc, one of those issues is the fact that it can actually cause one to become hypothyroid.

    I've never advocated the alarmist stance that taking the large doses is going to necessarily cause someone to keel over, but toxicity symptoms have been noted at even moderate "high" dosages, and messing about with ones thyroid with no idea of your starting levels or the effect of the supplement on the levels subsequently seems pretty risky to me.
    Yes, it is risky and should only be done under a doctor's care.

    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    NO !! NOT this photo again! It proves nothing - NOTHING. I have photos of my arms looking like that from midge bites. And if it IS from iodine - it could just as easily be from an overdose as from bromide detox.
    Exactly. A photo on a webpage is not medical advice. And Grizz didn't post that photo to show the perils of iodine. He posted it to show the alleged perils of not doing iodine exactly by the Brownstien method.

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzychan5 View Post
    When I started reading this thread 3 months ago that post looked like that, and I've read this whole thread. Grizz edited it a few days ago just to fix the disclaimer.

    It must be nice to live in an area near the ocean where iodine rich foods is plentiful, and you don't have to worry about it. I live in the Midwest, this area very well known for being extremely iodine deficient, people here have to relay mostly on just iodized salt. Iodine rich seafood that's wild caught is very expensive to get shipped here. I don't take iodized salt because I believe its bad for me, I don't consume much fish because its so costly, so my typical diet is extremely iodine lacking. A bottle of lugol's plus the supplements is very cheap in comparison. Not so long ago a large amount of the population around here suffered from goiter.

    I've read this whole thread and I have yet to read of one person needing to go to the hospital because of iodine. If there was such a person, I'd hope they'd share their story so we don't follow what they did that landed them in the hospital. I have read a lot of people taking large doses of iodine and not experiencing any problems, that doesn't mean a problem can't arise. If there was someone who just jumped right in and took a high dose of iodine all by itself with no supplements probably will have a serious side effect and need to go to the hospital, but no one recommends that. Its always been go very very slow, take the recommended supplements, back off if you notice a problem. And again, if your scared to take iodine then don't, stick to iodine in food-only. If someone would want to try to supplement Grizz has laid out a nice safe way to slowly do so.

    Please, can we stop with all the negativity and talk about your experience on iodine, if you even have any.
    I realize that living on the coast makes it easier for me to find good sushi as a natural source of iodine but kelp pills are available everywhere. Kelp noodles are available on the internet (and they are delicious). Canned seafood is cheap and plentiful. Sardines anyone? When a natural source is available, I prefer that because it is not just one isolated mineral or vitamin I'm taking. It comes as a package (e.g. kelp includes all kinds of sodium, magnesium, etc.) all in the balance nature intended. It would really be difficult to OD on sea protein and veggies.

    Why is pointing out that there is another way "being negative"?

    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    I HAVE had a problem with some of the supplements; salt specifically. My blood pressure shot up over only 3 weeks - from 115/75 for YEARS to 150 / 115. And the only thing I have changed is - salt loading. Not for me, any more. It is plain dangerous - for me.
    Another good point. What is a "nice safe way" for one person is not for another.

  5. #3695
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    Quote Originally Posted by t2t View Post
    Hi Breadsauce,

    This is great to hear that your psoriasis has abated…!

    BTW K2 mk4 is wonderful for the skin also! One to
    3 MILLIgrams a day seems to work great for many people
    across the net and with a tad (micrograms) of K2 mk7 too
    from blogs I have read.

    t2t
    I have seen this supplement mentioned several times. K2 mk 4 or 7. What is it and what does it do?

    Thanks!
    Gwynn

  6. #3696
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Apples and oranges.
    The cysts of FBD do not become cancer. That is very clear based on reliable cited scientific research.

    Teratomas are a different thing all together... several different things in fact since there is more than one type of teratoma.
    Medscape: Medscape Access
    In fact, according to what I've read, there is a distinct difference between having cysts, and having fibrocystic breast disease. I didn't know that. Maybe we should stop start comparing apples (cysts) with oranges (FBD). Both can exist simultaneously. Cysts are easier to get rid of. But the scar tissue formed from FBD can trap toxins that MAY turn cells cancerous. There is a risk, even though low.

  7. #3697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paysan View Post
    In fact, according to what I've read, there is a distinct difference between having cysts, and having fibrocystic breast disease. I didn't know that. Maybe we should stop start comparing apples (cysts) with oranges (FBD). Both can exist simultaneously. Cysts are easier to get rid of. But the scar tissue formed from FBD can trap toxins that MAY turn cells cancerous. There is a risk, even though low.
    The previous research articles that I posted were comparing the types of cysts that occur with FBD with incidence of cancer.
    Those studies stated that the Type 1 cysts in particular themselves do not become cancerous, but that a person who has them is slightly more predisposed to developing cancer. That cancer would develop in tissues along side the cysts... including areas away from the immediate cyst location. The type one cysts were considered an indicator of an increased likelihood (an approximate 5% increase in risk) of developing breast cancer over the lifespan, regardless in if the type one cysts were currently present in the tissues. The type 2 cysts, either current or healed, were not associated with an increase in cancer rates that was statistically important when compared to women with no history of FBD cysts at all.

    So yes, with one particular type of FBD associated cyst there is a slight increase in the chances of cancer. But having or not having those cysts present in the tissue did not seem to be a factor.
    It seems that scientists view them as a simple risk factor. If they were a direct cause then the rate of increase of risk for breast cancer in those with the type 1 cysts should be greater than 5%. As a simple risk factor it makes sense... a person who has a system prone to those type one cysts may also have a system more prone to breast cancer.
    Last edited by cori93437; 07-23-2012 at 07:07 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  8. #3698
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    @Gwynn,

    K2 removes calcium from the arteries and soft tissue. Also it is produced in the testes, pancreas and arterial walls. Coumadin, plavix, and a daily regimen of aspirin depletes one’s K1 which never gets a chance to be converted to K2. It works in sync for those, who supplement D3. Doesn’t hurt to have some magnesium in the picture too as D3 likes magnesium too.

    I described my first experience with K2 mk4 on Curezone a few years ago.

    I had been taking Iodine, D3 and magnesium taurate at the time I started with 15 MILLIgrams of K2 mk4. Wow! My sinuses were clearer than I remember them ever being in my lifetime. I could actually lay my head flat on the bed and "breathe" through both sinuses!

    I know. I know Some will blast me on my next description. But don't knock it if you haven't tried it...
    My gums and teeth felt like glassy velvet. But within 25 minutes I achieved a teenage woody that only an early pee run to the toilet would relieve. (I am not trying to be funny), I am trying to describe what I felt. After a few days the libido effect waned and I had to reduce the K2 down to 5 MILLIgrams a day to re-establish super libido. I just do 1 milligram with a teaspoon of coconut oil 3 times a day now. (The coconut oil or olive oil helps the K2 to absorb better). Many ladies report how smooth their facial skin feels, when starting K2, and how it helps them to sleep.

    Vitamin K2, MK-4, is used to carboxylate MGP proteins that do the calcium scavenging in arteries and soft tissues. It also seriously boosts the building of stronger bones and reduces fracture rates without making dramatic increases in BMD measurements. Taking more Vitamin D3 also increases the amount of calcium handling proteins requiring more Vitamin K2. There is research in progress to qualify Vitamin D toxicity as actually due to under carboxylation of the MGP and other proteins.
    There is some debate about which is better mk4 or mk7. Some folks choose to do both and that is fine. I personally have taken both and I like mk4 best.

    P.S. I take 3 tablespoons a day of coconut oil, now to try to get my HDL higher.

    t2t

    More stuff on K2 mk4 vs K2 mk7

    Today, I found another difference between MK-4 and MK-7. I was reading a paper about SXR-independent effects of vitamin K2 on gene expression. The investigators found that MK-4 strongly activates transcription of two specific genes in osteoblast cells. Osteoblasts are cells that create bone tissue. The genes are GDF15 and STC2 and they're involved in bone and cartilage formation. They tested K1 and MK-7, and in contrast to MK-4, they did not activate transcription of the genes in the slightest. This shows that MK-4 has effects on gene expression in bone tissue that MK-7 doesn't have.

    Whole Health Source: Are the MK-4 and MK-7 Forms of Vitamin K2 Equivalent?

    MK4 is produced via conversion of vitamin K1 in the testes, pancreas and arterial walls.[3] While major questions still surround the biochemical pathway for the transformation of vitamin K1 to MK4, studies demonstrate the conversion is not dependent on gut bacteria, as it occurs in germ-free rats[4][5] and in parenterally-administered K1 in rats.[6][7] In fact, tissues that accumulate high amounts of MK4 have a remarkable capacity to convert up to 90% of the available K1 into MK4.[8][9]
    In contrast to MK4, menaquinone-7 (MK7) is not produced by human tissue, but is converted from phylloquinone (K1) in the colon by E-coli bacteria.[10] However, bacteria-derived menaquinones (MK7) appear to contribute minimally to overall vitamin K status.[11][12] MK4 and MK7 are both found in the United States in dietary supplements for bone health.
    Vitamin K - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    CAUTION: If you are on Coumadin, Plavax or any prescribed blood thinning med, wait till you get finished with it before you start K2 supps.

    Be well,

    t2t
    Last edited by t2t; 07-24-2012 at 07:42 AM. Reason: till, to reestablish super libido

  9. #3699
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    Thanks for the K2 info t2t...
    I've been looking round at it but haven't started using it yet.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  10. #3700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Yes, it is risky and should only be done under a doctor's care.

    I realize that living on the coast makes it easier for me to find good sushi as a natural source of iodine but kelp pills are available everywhere. Kelp noodles are available on the internet (and they are delicious). Canned seafood is cheap and plentiful. Sardines anyone? When a natural source is available, I prefer that because it is not just one isolated mineral or vitamin I'm taking. It comes as a package (e.g. kelp includes all kinds of sodium, magnesium, etc.) all in the balance nature intended. It would really be difficult to OD on sea protein and veggies.
    I did tell my doctor, and he's fine with me supplementing with iodine, I mentioned this over a month ago in this thread. I got my thyroid tested, everything came back normal so he gave me the go ahead to test using lugol's plus the supplements. I told him I wasn't going to go very high in mg and I was going to take it slow. He didn't think I'd hurt myself, of course he also thought I wouldn't see any positive results either.

    About canned fish. I don't buy canned anything because of BPA. Canned fish is also nasty, I tried eating canned sardines and they are awful. I love fresh/frozen wild caught fish when I can afford it, but definitely not in cans. Kelp tablets are also not so great because they tend to be loaded with chemicals because the kelp is grown in polluted waters (near boat harbors etc..).

    Why are you trying to make me change? I don't feel anything negative from taking iodine, and I feel better taking the lugols + supplements.
    Last edited by lizzychan5; 07-23-2012 at 07:47 PM.

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