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  1. #3651
    magicmerl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
    And obviously you cannot be bothered to cite the actual facts yourself, when asked, because you have to go to the university library of your own. Yes, I think you are just satisfied to create a nuisance.

    LJ
    I'm curious. What would be the 'facts' that PB could present that you would find compelling? This is the internet and she did cite various references. Then you said you want 'medical books', but didn't want to look them up in the library yourself. Were you expecting her to courier some to your house? It seems to me that you think that you are cleverly 'getting' PB by asking her to meet the same evidentiary standard that she is asking of Grizz (i.e. provide scientific evidence for outlandish claims).

    However, I think that there are flaws in your reasoning. I don't need to read a scientific peer reviewed journal before putting on my shoes in the morning, as that's a safe enough activity that I'm happy to 'trust' it will be a low risk activity. I don't need to see a scientific publication in order to find the idea of caution as it relates to potentially risky activities credible.

    It's only when considering venturing out into unchartered waters and doing things like taking potentially dangerously high levels of iodine; or eating 30 bananas a day; or cutting out canola oil and replacing it with butter and tallow; or eliminating all fats and replacing it with sugar to speed up your metabolism, or immersing yourself in an ice-filled bath, or rejecting your doctors firm suggestion that you go on statins because of your cholesterol, that you should be extra cautious.

    The ironic thing is that I think that *all* of the frequent posters on this thread are proponents of Iodine supplementation. The question is one of degree. Why are some people 'trolls' for essentially recommending caution with regards to potentially overdosing on iodine?

    Is there a way that everyone on this thread can respectfully explore the issue of where the safety margins are for Iodine supplementation?
    Last edited by magicmerl; 07-22-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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  2. #3652
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    I have looked and looked and looked, and I have yet to find a single current medical protocol that suggests a mastectomy for FBD.
    Mastectomy isn't even encouraged for every breast cancer patient anymore...

    FBD protocol is more about lifestyle changes first, and adding medications second, medications are mostly used to regulate hormonal fluctuations that cause FBD flare-ups.

    And yes, I believe that some moderate iodine supplementation has a place in this area of "lifestyle changes" which includes lots of things like consuming less caffeine, improving diet, supplements such as evening primrose oil and vitamin e, wearing comfortable and supportive bras, etc...
    Fibrocystic Breasts &mdash; Diagnosis and Treatment at Mayo Clinic
    Cori,
    You did not look at this message:
    I know I am chiming in on this post super late but I just want to thank everyone who has shared information here. Grizz, If I ever meet you in person I'm going to kiss you on the lips!

    After reading everything and thinking about it I decided to give iodine a try. I have had fiber cystic breasts since I was about 11 years old and I can't even tell you how uncomfortable exercising, hugging and even bras have been my whole life. I too have had 4 different doctors tell me to cut off my breasts. (and I have even thought about it) Also they told me to get a hysterectomy as soon as I was done having children to deal with the uterine fibroids.

    I have been taking iodine with the support supplements for just over a month. I dove right in and started with 1 drop. (now up to 4 drops) The pain in my breasts went away within 24 hours!!!! I literally did a little dance in the shower when I realized it. I still have some lumps but the smaller ones are gone. I also am getting a lot of relief from the fibroid pain.

    Other things I have observed is my appetite is almost completely gone, my hands don't break out from the chemicals anymore, my fingernails are hard and growing for the first time in my life, I haven't even had one migraine since starting and I am happy and have so much energy. I have suffered from depression for so long that it is amazing to feel normal again.

    So, again, thank you thank you!!
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post889391
    Same reports from women in my own neighborhood.
    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 07-22-2012 at 05:27 PM.

  3. #3653
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    I'm curious. What would be the 'facts' that PB could present that you would find compelling? This is the internet and she did cite various references. Then you said you want 'medical books', but didn't want to look them up in the library yourself. Were you expecting her to courier some to your house? It seems to me that you think that you are cleverly 'getting' PB by asking her to meet the same evidentiary standard that she is asking of Grizz (i.e. provide scientific evidence for outlandish claims).

    However, I think that there are flaws in your reasoning. I don't need to read a scientific peer reviewed journal before putting on my shoes in the morning, as that's a safe enough activity that I'm happy to 'trust' it will be a low risk activity. I don't need to see a scientific publication in order to find the idea of caution as it relates to potentially risky activities credible.

    It's only when considering venturing out into unchartered waters and doing things like taking potentially dangerously high levels of iodine; or eating 30 bananas a day; or cutting out canola oil and replacing it with butter and tallow; or eliminating all fats and replacing it with sugar to speed up your metabolism, or immersing yourself in an ice-filled bath, or rejecting your doctors firm suggestion that you go on statins because of your cholesterol, that you should be extra cautious.

    The ironic thing is that I think that *all* of the frequent posters on this thread are proponents of Iodine supplementation. The question is one of degree. Why are some people 'trolls' for essentially recommending caution with regards to potentially overdosing on iodine?

    Is there a way that everyone on this thread can respectfully explore the issue of where the safety margins are for Iodine supplementation?
    Dr. Brownstein has done all of that. See the details in Iodine References:
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

    Grizz

  4. #3654
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    This is the treatment protocol for FBD at my HMO (Kaiser). Nothing in there about routinely hacking off any body parts.

    Fibrocystic Breasts : Treatment Overview

    Most women who have fibrocystic breast changes or cyclic breast pain do not need treatment from their doctor. Cystic or tender breasts are a normal premenstrual condition, and fibrocystic changes do not lead to breast cancer. Unless your pain is severe and long-standing, home treatment measures are likely to relieve your symptoms. For more information, see the Home Treatment section of this topic.

    Low-dose birth control pills (oral contraceptives) may help reduce cyclic breast tenderness and breast swelling before periods. This may be an option if you have cyclic breast pain and you also want to prevent pregnancy.
    Birth control pills have very few serious side effects and may be taken safely by most nonsmoking women through their 40s.
    Some women find that birth control pills make their breast symptoms worse. Breast pain can also be a side effect of birth control pills.
    In very rare cases, other prescription medicines are used to treat severe cyclic breast pain. Because all of these medicines can cause serious side effects, they are used only in cases of severe pain.
    Danazol is a man-made form of the male hormone testosterone. This medicine stops your menstrual cycle and puts your body into a state that is like menopause.
    Tamoxifen blocks the effects of estrogen in the body. It is often used to treat breast cancer or to help prevent breast cancer in high-risk women.
    Toremifene also blocks the effects of estrogen in the body.
    Goserelin injections stop your ovaries from working. This stops your menstrual cycle and puts your body into a state that is like menopause.

  5. #3655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Cori,
    You did not look at this message:


    Same reports from women in my own neighborhood.
    Grizz
    As with what was said previously about there being some hack doctors out there... yes, they exist.
    They may be trying to follow some very old and misguided information about FBD that is currently not the standard of practice.
    This is why people should educate themselves as much as possible and never hesitate to get a second opinion.

    But those doctors are also why I question some of the very doctors that you advocate Grizz... the vast majority of the information provided by you from those doctors is not backed by any data that is cited so that the research might be checked or read for oneself. It lacks credibility that I believe is necessary.
    I'm wary, and I believe rightly so, of any doctor who goes so far outside of the accepted medical communities standards... either by advocating a mastectomy for FBD, or by advocating doses of supplements that are vastly higher than necessary and that have also been shown in some research to pose harm to the person taking them at those high dosages.
    My problem with Brownstein in particular is that of the citations I have found the full text of that he has given, he has used excerpts out of context and in a misleading fashion. Credibility is severely lacking when this happens.
    Last edited by cori93437; 07-22-2012 at 05:49 PM.
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  6. #3656
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    Here's a link to an exchange between Dr. Alan Gaby and Drs. Brownstein and Abraham. Gaby wrote an editorial in The Townsend Letter in which he expressed concern about the amount of iodine being recommended by Doctors Brownstein and Abraham. The latter two responded to the editorial, and a back and forth exchange ensued. I haven't had time to read all of it, but it looks interesting:

    Gaby Responds to Iodine Rebuttal 3 (July 2006) Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients

  7. #3657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkward View Post
    Here's a link to an exchange between Dr. Alan Gaby and Drs. Brownstein and Abraham. Gaby wrote an editorial in The Townsend Letter in which he expressed concern about the amount of iodine being recommended by Doctors Brownstein and Abraham. The latter two responded to the editorial, and a back and forth exchange ensued. I haven't had time to read all of it, but it looks interesting:

    Gaby Responds to Iodine Rebuttal 3 (July 2006) Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients
    Thanks for posting that link Hawkward.
    I'm reading it and it seems that my concerns about Dr. Brownstein are echoed by Dr. Gaby... mainly that many of Brownstein's assertions are either based on bad data or data that has been taken out of context to the information of a total research document.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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  8. #3658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I cited internet medical texts. If you want hard bound books, that is up to you to go get them. I know the definitions of "cyst" vs. "cancer".
    You did what you were abusing Grizz of doing, looking up more data from the internet. I have built my own webpages, does that make my data any more or less accurate? I don't think you can tell either way. No where on the page are cites. Then you ask me to verify your data. Hrumph.

    On the first list of descriptions, I found this:

    dermoid cyst a teratoma, usually benign, characterized by mature ectodermal elements, having a fibrous wall lined with stratified epithelium, and containing keratinous material, hair, and sometimes material such as bone, tooth, or nerve tissue; found most often in the ovary.

    Which leads me to believe that a cyst may become malignant. What, that you write should I believe?

    LJ
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  9. #3659
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    6,000+ people at the Yahoo Iodine Group and thousands of others at the CureZone Iodine Group follow the Dr. Brownstein protocol. So do I.

    If y'all want to take iodine, you should do it under a doctor's protocol. You pick whatever doctor you want. I don't care one iota which doctor you follow.

    Or make up your own protocol at your own risk. Let us hear which protocol you chose and why.

    Bottom line, every cell in your body needs iodine to be healthy, so do your own research and pick whatever suits you.

    Grizz

  10. #3660
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
    You did what you were abusing Grizz of doing, looking up more data from the internet. I have built my own webpages, does that make my data any more or less accurate? I don't think you can tell either way. No where on the page are cites. Then you ask me to verify your data. Hrumph.

    On the first list of descriptions, I found this:

    dermoid cyst a teratoma, usually benign, characterized by mature ectodermal elements, having a fibrous wall lined with stratified epithelium, and containing keratinous material, hair, and sometimes material such as bone, tooth, or nerve tissue; found most often in the ovary.

    Which leads me to believe that a cyst may become malignant. What, that you write should I believe?

    LJ
    Apples and oranges.
    The cysts of FBD do not become cancer. That is very clear based on reliable cited scientific research.

    Teratomas are a different thing all together... several different things in fact since there is more than one type of teratoma.
    Medscape: Medscape Access
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


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