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  1. #81
    PeacefulWarrior's Avatar
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    How much control do we have over the strength of our immune response to foreign invaders?

    Some people may think they have little or no control over that. Well, go get yourself vaccinated. That is a right you have.

    But, there are a lot of people like myself who think a healthy lifestyle (adequate exercise, proper nutrition, keeping poisons out of our bodies etc...all the things the PB is all about) promotes enhanced immune function.

    So, should I have to inject myself to protect the guy who works in the cubicle next to me (who is a smoker, sips on a soda pop all day long, thinks exercise is walking to his car after work, and has a seasons pass to McDonalds)?
    No thanks. That's not something I am willing to do.

    I'll take my chances with living a healthy lifestyle over living a poisonous lifestyle and expecting a chemical concoction to save me.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    3) If you come into contact with other humans, I believe that it is the socially responsible thing to do to get vaccinated. IMO.
    I think you would have been fine with what you said in your first post on this thread if you left out the part that implied that people who forgo flu shots are socially irresponsible and neglectful parents/family members. That's something I took issue with.

  3. #83
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    Yes....best of luck to you Kenn!

  4. #84
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    3) If you come into contact with other humans, I believe that it is the socially responsible thing to do to get vaccinated. IMO
    So wait a minute, do we get the flu shot to protect ourselves or to protect others?
    Which way does it work?
    And, if I decide to get the flu shot and therefor can't pass it on...is the virus not air borne anyways and people can catch it themselves?

    Edit: And also, how long does the flu shot work? Do I produce white blood cells to fight the weakened invaders until they're all dead and then the white blood cells are gone again, right? So this positive effect from the shot could be over within a week, no? I'd have to get a flu shot every week to keep this up, no?
    I'm not trying to be a smartass, I really don't know anything about microorganisms or the vaccs that are for sale. I'm from a country that doesn't do silly stuff like that, we get sick, fight it off and move on. The elder, well...this is nature, the weak usually die, maybe it's a way of saying "it was time".
    Last edited by Issabeau; 12-22-2011 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #85
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Issabeau View Post
    So wait a minute, do we get the flu shot to protect ourselves or to protect others?
    Which way does it work?
    And, if I decide to get the flu shot and therefor can't pass it on...is the virus not air borne anyways and people can catch it themselves?

    Edit: And also, how long does the flu shot work? Do I produce white blood cells to fight the weakened invaders until they're all dead and then the white blood cells are gone again, right? So this positive effect from the shot could be over within a week, no? I'd have to get a flu shot every week to keep this up, no?
    I'm not trying to be a smartass, I really don't know anything about microorganisms or the vaccs that are for sale. I'm from a country that doesn't do silly stuff like that, we get sick, fight it off and move on. The elder, well...this is nature, the weak usually die, maybe it's a way of saying "it was time".
    The idea is that if you get a flu shot and are successfully immunized against the current strain of flu then not only do you protect yourself, but you also become one less person who is spreading the flu, so you protect others as well. However, even if the flu vaccine is generated against the proper strain of virus the vaccine only reduces your risk of getting the flu by about 50% on average. If you are elderly or very young, your immune system may not respond to the vaccine very strongly so you still can be at high risk of getting infected. The flu is primarily spread by droplets of infected fluid (most efficiently spread by infected people) so if people around you are vaccinated and become immune you are less likely to come in contact with the virus and less likely to get infected. Since the reduction in infection is modest in good years and poor on bad years many people feel the risk/benefit ratio is too high for their comfort. Others prefer to take the small risk associated with vaccination.

    When you are vaccinated your body generates both a T cell and a B cell response. While most of your T cells die off after a few weeks, a small but very potent subset of them survive (they are called memory T cells). These cells can very rapidly attack if you are infected. The B cells mature in response to vaccine and make antibodies. These cells can persists for years and years. That is why if you get chicken pox as a child you are immune for many, many years.

    The strain of flu virus that goes around every year is different so even if you have been vaccinated or had the flu in the past your immune system may not have seen the current virus at all so you can be more suceptible.
    Last edited by jammies; 12-22-2011 at 09:36 PM.

  7. #87
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    may your nurses be hot and bosomy, kenn
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #88
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    My wife works in a hospital and is forced to get the flu vaccine. I've never gotten it. She gets really sick at least once every year. I barely get sick. Soooo....

  9. #89
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    Ah, thanks Jammies
    I didn't know that memory T-cells stick around to get back to work quickly if infected.

    And yea, I've heard about there being hundreds or thousands of different flu virus strains and they mutate or grow/change as time goes on so some are
    actually never the same. I could never figure out how people get a flu shot for something they don't know exists.

  10. #90
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    Paleobird, there's no point in arguing with people about this, particularly here. I've never seen anyone who's anti-vaccine change their mind based on microbiology or probability (or anything, actually.) Real-world examples like the recent resurgence in whooping cough killing babies in California don't matter either.

    Certain people seem more comfortable taking higher risks passively than taking active lower risks. For whatever reason, they are more comfortable with the clearly-demonstrated side effects of diseases than the variously rumored and lower-rate side effects of vaccines.

    Just wait till they finish the universal flu vaccine: https://www.google.com/search?q=universal+flu+vaccine
    Then there will be an all-new thing for people to automatically assume is horrible. Meanwhile, herd immunity from the people actually willing to take it will reach an all-time high and protect those same doubters -- and due to the lower infection rates, why, that means vaccines are even less necessary amirite!
    "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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