03-31-2013, 11:32 AM
I think that in the long run, that keeping your calories lower than suggested is likely to result in a nutritional deficit. If I was any good at listening to my body I would not be 100 pounds overweight. Now I do hope that in the future I get to where I can listen and interpret the signals correctly.
Originally Posted by Ddraig Goch
I also think that trying to eat all of your ud calories in one sitting may not be the best idea, for any number of reasons, physical and emotional. The definition of fasting, by the way, is not necessarily a total absence of calories. At least when I was growing up (Catholic) it meant 1 meal, and 2 smaller ones with no eating in between. The science I have seen (limited to be sure, as there just isn't much there) does not indicate that total absence of calories is any better than a severe reduction, Dr. Attia actually touched on this in his blog this week. Two choices « The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.
Ruth, regarding the trouble you have reaching your calorie goal, I wonder if you are getting enough fat on your ud's. What is the percentage of fat on those lower calories days. In the end I suspect that over the course of a week, your ud's and dd's will work out so that your average is just right.
03-31-2013, 01:35 PM
I think religious fasting is a different thing. I am not religious but it seems to me that religious fasting is about doing with out ie fasting makes you hungry which makes you suffer slightly (I probably have not put that quite right and I do not mean any offence but I hope you know what I mean)
I am more interested in the physiological effects of fasting. From what I understand, ingesting any calories (except maybe pure fat) causes the digestive system to start working & oxidisation to take place so the full health benefits of fasting will not be felt if you eat during the intended 'fasted state'.
This article Intermittent Fasting and Stubborn Body Fat | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health is one of a few I have read from different people that explain the physiological effects better than I can.
PS I read the Dr Atta link you posted but I could not relate it to IF. Sorry but what am I missing? (NB: I don't read him much as I find him quite hard going. He never seems to give a straight answer to anything)
Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-31-2013 at 01:49 PM.
03-31-2013, 01:59 PM
For the most part, I have been trying to listen to my body, though I'm sure not a good judge of body signals after all these years
I have a couple of concerns. 1. If I keep this up, am I missing important nutrients? 2. Am I losing muscle if I eat too little? 3. Am I ruining my metabolism by eating so long on so many days? 4. Am I messing up any weight loss (which has not occurred, though I'm in my usual week 3 slump, so it's hard to know what causes what) by eating too low (anecdotally, on LC carb friends, the successful vets all say eat up to UD calories, though they all ate SAD, so I don't know how that plays into things, if at all).
Stopping when full, I've consumed:
271, 1143, 212, 1222, 462, and 1250 (may be a few more today, but probably not...). That averages to 760 calories/day. I'm trying to eat healthy (bone broth, liver...have heart planned for this week!) and watch the junk, but I still find myself a bit worried. My protein is all over place, but averaging only 32 g. My fat is pretty darned high, although the averages are misleading at 66.5 g (usually over 100 g on an UD -- possibly why I'm so full!).
On the one meal thing, that's obviously not required. It's just something I want to get to. It makes life easier for me. I also feel much more in control to have a small window in which to eat...I don't sample or eat when I'm only "sorta" hungry. Instead, I'm eating when I'm truly hungry. And it's easy to stop. I also don't seem to binge or eat past full with one meal.
03-31-2013, 02:42 PM
If your food is nutrient dense surely the calories can be reduced safely? Re muscle atrophy, I have not read anything anywhere that suggests a ketonic diet is anything other than muscle sparing so you should be protected, but I would think 32g might be a bit low. (As an aside, I read again today that 46g is more than enough protein for the average height female so I wonder again if the 55g I am currently aiming for is too much). I think the trick is to eat the protein then add the fat til you are full.
I think you are right about the one meal thing. It is easier to just program yourself mentally to eat just once a day. The problem I have is seeing how that works with UD/DD as the UD meal would be approx 3x the size of the DD.
I also share your concern re metabolism & low carb although I am beginning to come round to the idea that it would only be temporary, and as long as you stay in NK & raise the cals slowly when you are at goal, the metabolism will resolve itself. I suspect I am going to end up going down that route but would prefer to do it when I am a lot closer to goal than I am now (and when its warmer)
03-31-2013, 03:26 PM
well, sorry, I thought that is where I was reading it this morning. Wherever it was, it essentially was saying that total calories should be very low (below at least 500) but didn't need to be zero. If I find it I will add the link here.
I think going lower calorie is possible, but so hard to get the nutrients needed. I obviously believe that our ancestors would have had periods of feast and famine and know we can survive despite it. But our goal here is to do better than to survive, our goal is to thrive in great health. Still possible, but harder.
p.s. I am not at all religious, I grew up Catholic. I was just using that as an example of a definition of fasting, and basically wanted to point out that it is important when you read an article or study to make sure you know what their definition is.
03-31-2013, 03:42 PM
I ate dinner...but I'm not proud of it. I wasn't really hungry, but the ham was SO good (no sugar). I also ate too many carbs -- sampled the cookies I made for mom & DH and the mashed potatoes. I don't like the guilt and don't like that I ate that stuff. Since I ate those carbs, I've been "cravey" all day. Well, tomorrow is another day!!!!
03-31-2013, 04:54 PM
Ah let it go, guilt over what you ate is a useless emotion. Learning from it and trying to figure what you were feeling when you started would be more helpful. Were you hungry for the carbs, feeling deprived that they could but you couldnt, felt you deserved it cause you have been so good, did you just taste without thinking about it them figured wth, or was it not so specific. I suspect you will physically feel the ramifications since you tend not to tolerate thise things well so no point in making yourself bad emotionally as well.
03-31-2013, 11:39 PM
I agree forget the guilt & start anew. I fell into the cream last night so you are not the only one. This weight thing is so hard!!
04-01-2013, 05:58 AM
Okay, yesterday's eating did not serve me well. I was physically exhausted, bloated, gassy, my joints hurt, and I had a headache. Eek.
Both weight & FBS are up today. 159.8 (almost + 1 lb) and FBS is 80 (very high for me!).
I have a good DD planned. I think I need it after yesterday. My ankles and fingers hurt - sure sign that I need some ACV!
I have determined that I cannot do JUDDDD (as prescribed), 1 meal/day, and NK all at the same time. Since this is the 4th week of my JUDDD trial, that should be my main priority (though carbs WILL stay low -- those don't make me feel good; protein will continue to be moderate). I'll see where I go from here...
04-01-2013, 06:18 AM
I agree, my main focus is JUDDD, then low carb, then NK in that order. I currently don't really have an interest in 1 meal a day, so thats easy. I will obviously not be giving up the real whole foods, and no plans to add back grains, and given yesterday's foray into sugar, I am hoping I can keep away from that for a while. It may be an issue as DH's birthday is Saturday, and I will make him a Boston Creme Pie.
Today's plan includes lots of fluids to try and flush that stuff out of the system!