Study shows that Fat Based Diet Reduces Endurance 50 percent! page 2

[Hedonist]

Yeah, sometimes studies of rats and other critters are useful. Sometimes not, because the critters are too far from us.

[macroniche]

Stabby-now that's a great study. as i was reading about the guy having to eat nothing but meat and fish I had the strongest desire to eat an orange. i'm going to look into those other animal studies they noted at the end of the study. it seemed to say that in highly trained athletes the performance is basically the same. so with that said, why aren't more athletes going with ketogenic diets and then carb loading for super turbo glycogen powered muscles. i realized there is carb loading but it doesn't seem to be on the tail end of a ketogenic diet.

[tfarny]

As someone who does research and reads it for a good part of my day, let me inject some clarity: The OP is asking for a study, already completed, that "disproves" this study, which is not meaningful at all in the first place.
If this study isn't meaningful because a) they studied the wrong mammal (oops!) and b) the study lasted just long enough to not adapt the rats but to really stress them about the dietary change, why does it need to be "disproved" - it doesn't "prove" anything in the first place. In fact, if a study had been done that "proved" that humans given 30 days to adapt, INCREASE their endurance, it wouldn't actually "disprove" a study that found that rats, given 9 days, DECREASE their endurance. Both things can be true.
Research is very hard to do well and I do think that non-researchers really have no idea what a tough thing it really is to get right. So I'm sympathetic to the researchers, but journalists need to do a far better job in framing these things for the public.

[tfarny]

Stabby-now that's a great study. as i was reading about the guy having to eat nothing but meat and fish I had the strongest desire to eat an orange. i'm going to look into those other animal studies they noted at the end of the study. it seemed to say that in highly trained athletes the performance is basically the same. so with that said, why aren't more athletes going with ketogenic diets and then carb loading for super turbo glycogen powered muscles. i realized there is carb loading but it doesn't seem to be on the tail end of a ketogenic diet.

Mark trains some people like this. Sssshhhhh. Seriously.

[ib4student]

Funny... I've noticed an IMPROVEMENT in my running endurance

Same

[macroniche]

Since the heading of the the guys blog was so dogmatic as to almost say, "Fat makes you slow and Stupid" with no mention of other research I thought it was a good study to give a beatdown to using some other research.

To add some clarity to your clarity, actually i just asking to put holes in it- not to "disprove it" in the sense that you are meaning, at least (maybe my brain isn't working from eating fat more than carbs.) sorry if that was not clear.

I'm coming from the point of view that a study like this can be used as ammo from the "otherside", i.e. anyone trying to debunk Primal Lifestyle (and there are plenty of people out there who are). I could easily see someone using this type of study to convince other they shouldn't switch to a higher fat diet or that grains are fine. In fact that's exactly what the person did on the blog from where i originally discovered the study. All I'm trying to do is help us find and talk about insights and studies that would be a counter argument to this study.

So why have there not been any studies that have lasted longer (even if done on rats) especially if it is known that it takes a longer time for bodies to adapt. again this seems strange.

I total agree with you about journalists and framing these things...check this out. Fatty Foods Affect Memory and Exercise - NYTimes.com (they quote same study) and there was another one yesterday saying test scores improved eating oatmeal vs eggs as breakfast. i can't find it now though

"In fact, if a study had been done that "proved" that humans given 30 days to adapt, INCREASE their endurance, it wouldn't actually "disprove" a study that found that rats, given 9 days, DECREASE their endurance. "

Has there been? That would be quite helpful for this post.

[fpsjosh01]

Here's my 2 cents. We don't want endurance, we want short spurts of energy anyway.

Title of study should read, FAT CAUSES LOW CARB FLU, BUT MAKES YOUR SPRINTING A BILLION TIMES BETTER AS LONG AS IT'S ANIMAL FAT

[jsa23]

Funny... I've noticed an IMPROVEMENT in my running endurance

In general, the type of endurance hit I'd expect from a lower-carb diet is when one encounters glycogen depletion. As I mentioned above, that's typically at 15+ miles running for someone in pretty good shape.

Even on a lower-carb diet, most people should have no problem going 10k, up to perhaps 10 miles with their existing glycogen reserves. At those distances, "endurance" is more about the ability of your respiratory system to extract oxygen and your body's ability to ferry lactic acid out of the muscles - glycogen reserves don't begin to become a factor, even if they're smaller than normal due to a low-carb diet, until longer distances.

Like I said, I PR'ed a 5k not that long ago while eating pretty modest amounts of carbs - not as low as some people on these forums, but much lower than the average American. But it's not something I'd even begin to suggest is a good idea for someone who aspires to maximize their marathon performance. Two totally different distances, testing totally different aspects of "endurance".

[macroniche]

Here's my 2 cents. We don't want endurance, we want short spurts of energy anyway.

Title of study should read, FAT CAUSES LOW CARB FLU, BUT MAKES YOUR SPRINTING A BILLION TIMES BETTER AS LONG AS IT'S ANIMAL FAT

what's wrong with fats with vegetables like coconuts and avacados?

[fpsjosh01]

what's wrong with fats with vegetables like coconuts and avacados?

I'm just mad at scientists pushing their own agenda. Oh yeah, and there's nothing wrong the avocados or coconuts.

I'll even bet the O6 in avocados get broken down into anti inflamatories. I cant remember.

Either way, the study is completely flawed. We are all counter examples.