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Thread: I went to a nutritionist today... need some SERIOUS help!!! PLEASE! page

  1. #1
    goin2befit's Avatar
    goin2befit is offline Member
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    I went to a nutritionist today... need some SERIOUS help!!! PLEASE!

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    Background, 31 year old female, 5'8" , weight 376.4 with clothes and shoes

    I was just diagnosed with PCOS and insulin resistant. I have been overweight all my life, highest being 417. Lost 99 pounds once (Atkins cheat version of all meat/eggs/cheese and 20 grams of carbs from what ever I wanted mainly chocolate and chocolate milk) ... stopped went back to "balanced plus binges" and ended back at point a with 1 pound heavier... lost about 83 pounds again (Atkins~ A little better with veggies now and more by the book, but still cheated a lot)... Of course... as you can see I'm back up on the rising side again!

    The nutritionist advised that Atkins (low carb/high fat) will cause ketones which is bad for the kidneys with "diabetic" people. She would like for me to start a "normal" diet with 6 small meals and about 15 carbs from starch/milk at each meal with 3 ounces of protein.... She does say we need some fat. She explained the needed to eat frequent is so the body will be in a constant state of "exercise" by working to digest the food. She also explained people will lose a lot but gain it back once going to a "normal" diet after that.

    My husband and I were talking and we discussed the idea of losing on an Atkins/Primal way but then go to a "normal" way. I explained I don't think that can be done because of the idea of "fat for fuel" versus "carbs/sugar for fuel" His point is I'll be able to "burn" off the normal when I'm at a normal weight.

    I guess my questions is...
    What effects "LONG TERM" do we have to support it is safe, any one been doing this for 20-30 years and perhaps was diabetic before?

    Can you switch from "fat for fuel" to "sugar for fuel" and not gain weight?

    Now that you are at your "ideal" weight/optimum health, do you eat specifically bread/rice/grains? Do you gain, if so how does your "normal" day look?

    I'm talking about "whole foods" not gallons of ice cream, although that sounds nice right now to take away my stress!!!! Sigh

    Thanks for any tips, suggestions, idea...
    ~Amanda

  2. #2
    Paleobirdy's Avatar
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    What people call "normal" may never be right for you. It has been extremely difficult for me to maintain any weight loss, and I doubt that I will ever be able to go up to that 150 grams ideal ever again. It is better for me to just stay away from bread, but I can do a few cheat meals here and there without gaining. The idea that whole foods keeps weight off is a myth for many of us, so don't be fooled by people who insist that the myth is entirely true. Only you will be able to tell for yourself.
    If I were you, I wouldn't horse around with Atkins, but go directly to a Rosedale or Bernstein diet, and go take a look at the Quilt thread, especially if you are still bingeing or wanting to eat lots of food even though you are mostly low carb.
    What the nutritionist said about ketones is pretty much bunk, but I'll dig up a link or a vid for you on that. While it is true that it is not a good idea for people with kidney disease to eat tons of protein, your nutritionist is assuming that all low carb diets are high in protein, and that isn't true at all. Also, ketotic diets have been shown to improve function in some people with kidney disease.
    "Should everyone eat a paleo diet?" by Lynda Frassetto, MD on Vimeo

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    Misabi's Avatar
    Misabi is online now Senior Member
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    Also, paleo/primal isn't necessarily a ketogenic diet if that's your biggest concern.
    Look at what Mark suggests as the optimal carb intake for losing weight for instance, for most people it would still be more than enough
    carbs to keep them out of ketosis.

    As for the protein / kidney issues...
    If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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    Misabi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobirdy View Post
    What people call "normal" may never be right for you. It has been extremely difficult for me to maintain any weight loss, and I doubt that I will ever be able to go up to that 150 grams ideal ever again. It is better for me to just stay away from bread, but I can do a few cheat meals here and there without gaining. The idea that whole foods keeps weight off is a myth for many of us, so don't be fooled by people who insist that the myth is entirely true. Only you will be able to tell for yourself.
    If I were you, I wouldn't horse around with Atkins, but go directly to a Rosedale or Bernstein diet, and go take a look at the Quilt thread, especially if you are still bingeing or wanting to eat lots of food even though you are mostly low carb.
    What the nutritionist said about ketones is pretty much bunk, but I'll dig up a link or a vid for you on that. While it is true that it is not a good idea for people with kidney disease to eat tons of protein, your nutritionist is assuming that all low carb diets are high in protein, and that isn't true at all. Also, ketotic diets have been shown to improve function in some people with kidney disease.
    "Should everyone eat a paleo diet?" by Lynda Frassetto, MD on Vimeo
    I've read Dr. Bernstein's book and I think if you're going to implement that, do it from a primal perspective (e.g. natural whole foods, minimal/no processed). IIRC he recommends some foods that while may be great from a diabetes treatment perspective, probably still aren't great for your over all health.
    If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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    Paleobirdy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misabi View Post
    I've read Dr. Bernstein's book and I think if you're going to implement that, do it from a primal perspective (e.g. natural whole foods, minimal/no processed). IIRC he recommends some foods that while may be great from a diabetes treatment perspective, probably still aren't great for your over all health.
    Rosedale's plan is similar but closer to paleo. Dr. Rosedale has a very long comment on one of Jimmy Moore's recent blogposts. Worth finding. Just look for the "safe starches" posts.

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    Glamorama's Avatar
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    So do you actually plan on losing weight by switching to fat-bruning, but then hoping to return to sugar-burning by taking up a normal diet (not Paleo) once your each goal? Sorry, its not clear from your post!

    You sound like a prime-candidate from the Leptin-rx, lots of woman who did it around the same time as me (In the monster Leptin-thread here on the forum) had PCOS and insulin-issues, and most of them fully fixed it, in particular a user called Geostump.

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    jammies's Avatar
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    I have lost all the weight I need to but I don't ever plan to eat any way other than primal. It is not a diet where you lose weight and then go back to eating grains - it is based on the premise that grains are not really meant to be a large part of the human diet. Many people chose to give up grains and vegetable/see oils to improve health even though they are at a healthy weight.

    I have never done low carb primal - so I think I bounce back and forth in and out of ketosis. I don't have an issue with weight gain. But again, none of my regular carb sources come from grain.

    I think if you start with the basics shown on MDA or here: Archevore - Archevore Diet you will certainly lose weight and improve your health. It is a great way to eat - no hunger, better energy, and weight loss as a nice side effect.

  8. #8
    Dr. Bork Bork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goin2befit View Post
    The nutritionist advised that Atkins (low carb/high fat) will cause ketones which is bad for the kidneys with "diabetic" people. She would like for me to start a "normal" diet with 6 small meals and about 15 carbs from starch/milk at each meal with 3 ounces of protein.... She does say we need some fat. She explained the needed to eat frequent is so the body will be in a constant state of "exercise" by working to digest the food. She also explained people will lose a lot but gain it back once going to a "normal" diet after that.
    Advice: Get a new doctor.
    Try to find one that is more in line with natural living. What this doctor is telling you is a boatload of Conventional Wisdom. She needs to get with the program and update her research!
    --Trish (Bork)
    TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
    http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
    FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

  9. #9
    Sue's Avatar
    Sue
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    Your Questions:

    I guess my questions is...
    "What effects "LONG TERM" do we have to support it is safe, any one been doing this for 20-30 years and perhaps was diabetic before?"
    A: Diabetics that are not well controlled can have huge levels of ketones which is nowhere near the levels of ketosis when on a very low carb diet.

    "Can you switch from "fat for fuel" to "sugar for fuel" and not gain weight?"
    If you switch from mostly fat for fuel as Atkins to a carb-burner type diet you will gain weight initially. Will have to maintain a certain calorie level to not keep gaining. You probably will keep gaining as you seem to be able to put on weight easily or do reach a high level of weight.
    Remember though that you don't just burn fat for fuel or just sugar for fuel - you burn both but one preferentially more than the other depending on what you are eating.

    "Now that you are at your "ideal" weight/optimum health, do you eat specifically bread/rice/grains? Do you gain, if so how does your "normal" day look?"
    You decide from the get go that you want to remove grains from your diet indefinitely if you want to follow the paleo lifestyle. You can eat some grains etc if that is your choice but you will have to limit portions if you can. Some folks have a hard time limiting portions so decide to not ever eat them again. Also a lot remove grains because not only do they feel they can't limit portions so causes them to fatten easily it is detrimental to their health - as in gut health, mental health, causes inflammation etc.

    I would try the six mini meals that nutritionist suggested and see how you feel, see if you are losing fat, see if you become more insulin sensitive.
    If you had 15g carbs at every meal that would be 90g carbs per day which is a good low amount - not very low carb as the 20g Atkins.
    I would avoid the grain carbs and just stick to the fibrous low carb veg and small portions of starchy vegetable carbs.

    In the end you have to do what you can maintain for life. The six mini meals may suit you while you are losing fat, maybe they won't - need to see how it goes. If it doesn't work try 4 meals or 3 main meals. You have to experiment. You're still a young woman - if you can turn it around now imagine how much more enjoyable life would be when you are healthy and at a normal weight.
    Last edited by Sue; 10-25-2011 at 07:59 PM.

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    dkd2001's Avatar
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    Jammies comments say pretty much everything. You aren't on a "diet" if you go primal, you are changing your lifestyle. There is a boatload of science out there to support the primal lifestyle. You need to educate yourself so you know what is going on. Definitely read Mark's book. Also Jack Krause's blog (JackKrause.com) and read Why We Get Fat and What to do About it by Gary Taubes. You can also read Rob Wolfe's book on the Paleo diet/lifestyle.) And get a good Alternative doctor or at least an MD who supports alternative medicine.
    Life is an ongoing Experiment of One, so here's to science!

    My Primal Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread37576.html

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