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Thread: Is smoking cigarettes THAT bad? page 16

  1. #151
    Lady D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    You can speculate all you want, but that's all it is. I sure hope I do not live that long anyway.
    Are you saying you don't want to live until your fifties? Or eighties?

    Mental wellbeing improves with age, I can tell you, in my late teens & twenties I was fairly reckless about my own wellbeing at times, I'm in my forties now and, damn, life is sweeter now than ever!

  2. #152
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    50s, definitely not 80s. I do not like the direction my life is headed, and I do not like the way the world is now. This leaves me with some options, but, I do not often speculate or think of the future as I'm drawn to the past, and uncertainty is an unnerving thought to me.

    Plus, I really like my baby face.
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

  3. #153
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    Well, granny lecture time here but you know, you can fix your own life, and you can even fix the world - “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” ― Margaret Mead

    My mum was denied the retirement she badly wanted to explore her creative and political ideas, because she also liked to smoke and didn't think it would get her... you can always choose to die by your own hand later on, if that's what you want as an option, but to risk the horrors of oral cancer, lung cancer, all that stuff, where you'll be totally under the care of physicians, many of whom won't have a clue what they're doing, and won't treat you with any dignity at all - if you're a bit of a vain control freak (I know I am, and that it's a GOOD thing!) - those are not things to place yourself on the de facto waiting list for.

    And think how utterly dumb you'll feel if you get a terminal diagnosis from something everyone told you was bad for you, but you didn't listen, and now you have the options of chemo, or just letting it take its course as you battle to try and get the pain meds you need, and all that "end of life" circus BS?

    Plus smoking ages you worse than almost anything, but you probably know that.

    Meh, lecture over, go on doing what you want, I know I would in your place! lol

  4. #154
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    Come on folks... Nicotine is a POISON. Niconoid compounds are some of the most powerful insecticides on the planet. Extract the nicotine from a single pack of cigarettes and inject it, and you'll be dead in less than a minute! Don't take my word for it.... Please, educate yourself. Talk to a toxicologist... Talk to a CORONER. Learn the truth. Smoke if you wish, but you owe it to yourself to learn the reality about the effects the stuff has on your body. "Estrogenic"? Geez. I wonder if the folks that use that term even understand what that implies. Phthalates and BPA are "estrogenic".... But I wouldn't want to eat, drink, or smoke them. Nicotine is poison. The soot, tar, and other by-products of the burning damages your lungs. These are not my opinions, they are facts. Knowing all of this, it's not possible to believe that cigarettes are good in any way. If you add to this the horrid chemicals the tobacco industry adds to the leaf during processing, it gets worse...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by OkeePhoenix View Post
    Come on folks... Nicotine is a POISON. Niconoid compounds are some of the most powerful insecticides on the planet. Extract the nicotine from a single pack of cigarettes and inject it, and you'll be dead in less than a minute! Don't take my word for it.... Please, educate yourself. Talk to a toxicologist... Talk to a CORONER. Learn the truth. Smoke if you wish, but you owe it to yourself to learn the reality about the effects the stuff has on your body. "Estrogenic"? Geez. I wonder if the folks that use that term even understand what that implies. Phthalates and BPA are "estrogenic".... But I wouldn't want to eat, drink, or smoke them. Nicotine is poison. The soot, tar, and other by-products of the burning damages your lungs. These are not my opinions, they are facts. Knowing all of this, it's not possible to believe that cigarettes are good in any way. If you add to this the horrid chemicals the tobacco industry adds to the leaf during processing, it gets worse...
    Very true. That is the problem with reductionist thinking such as that espoused by Ray Peat. He talks about isolated chemical compounds but ignores the larger reality.

  6. #156
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    As an aside, smoke from cooking fires alone kills 4 million people annually - people who don't deliberately inhale it repreatedly right down into their lungs:

    "Washington, D.C. (December 13, 2012) – Household air pollution from cooking with solid fuels kills 4 million people annually, according to new global burden of disease estimates published in The Lancet today.

    Millions more are sickened from lung cancer and disease, child lower respiratory infections, cardiovascular disease, and cataracts associated with household air pollution (HAP). The results demonstrate the continued impact of HAP on child survival and life-expectancy, and underscore the link between HAP and noncommunicable diseases.

    ... Each day, around 3 billion people cook and heat their homes using open fires and inefficient stoves that burn solid fuels such as wood, animal dung, agricultural residues, charcoal, and coal. As a result, 3.5 million deaths are directly associated with HAP each year. In addition, another 500,000 deaths from outdoor air pollution caused by cooking, with a large share of outdoor pollution in regions like Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa originating from household solid fuel use.

    The HAP findings add increased urgency to the Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves’ mission to save and improve lives through the creation of a market for clean, safe, and efficient household cooking solutions.

    “One of the most alarming findings is that smoke from cooking fires was found to be the largest environmental threat to health in the world today,” said Kirk R. Smith, a professor of global environmental health at the University of California, Berkeley, and a co-author of The Lancet article.

    Source

    That, to me, demonstrates that it's the act of inhaling smoke itself that's as harmful, and not just some weird property of modern cigarettes.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady D View Post
    Well, granny lecture time here but you know, you can fix your own life, and you can even fix the world - “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” ― Margaret Mead

    My mum was denied the retirement she badly wanted to explore her creative and political ideas, because she also liked to smoke and didn't think it would get her... you can always choose to die by your own hand later on, if that's what you want as an option, but to risk the horrors of oral cancer, lung cancer, all that stuff, where you'll be totally under the care of physicians, many of whom won't have a clue what they're doing, and won't treat you with any dignity at all - if you're a bit of a vain control freak (I know I am, and that it's a GOOD thing!) - those are not things to place yourself on the de facto waiting list for.

    And think how utterly dumb you'll feel if you get a terminal diagnosis from something everyone told you was bad for you, but you didn't listen, and now you have the options of chemo, or just letting it take its course as you battle to try and get the pain meds you need, and all that "end of life" circus BS?

    Plus smoking ages you worse than almost anything, but you probably know that.

    Meh, lecture over, go on doing what you want, I know I would in your place! lol
    Thanks, I think about these things a lot, but, it really becomes more a battle with self, plus a battle with all the other problems with the world. Also, in your 40s, you're hardly a grandma. 40 is the new 20, didn't you know?

    I told most of my loved ones that if I were to end up in such a state, to let me die, because it's what I wish.

    Each day, around 3 billion people cook and heat their homes using open fires and inefficient stoves that burn solid fuels such as wood, animal dung, agricultural residues, charcoal, and coal.
    It's not the smoke, we evolved around smoke, it's the other stuff that is put into it, as seen here. What we didn't evolve around was these sorts of pollutions. I smoke about the most pure, organic tobacco leaves you can find, basically what Sitting Bull smoked, and if I still die from actual cigarette smoke(we'll never know, judging by this, apparently) then you can say "I told you so".

    I'll be too dead to care though.
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasey View Post

    Also, the dangers of second hand smoke are very real. Maybe you won the genetic lottery and you have a perfect paleo diet and you're not going to get lung cancer. That doesn't mean the person next to you is in the same boat. Smoking doesn't just impact the person doing it.

    Basically, I'd keep encouraging your partner to quit!
    Actually, the dangers of second hand smoke is based on junk science. When the anti-smoking people couldn't get people to listen they brought in the government. There are no studies showing that second hand smoke produces cancer/heart disease. You find me one and I'll look it over. (Secondhand Smoke Studies: The Hype and The Deceit can get you started - we all know what happens when "junk science" comes into play)

    Smoke is a toxin and there are toxins in cigarettes. You can protect your body from the effects of cigarettes with the proper (aka paleo/primal) diet just like you can protect yourself from other environmental toxins.

    Smoking and Your Health | Your Doctor's Orders
    Don’t believe the lies about secondhand smoke | The Daily Caller
    Since secondhand smoke isn't dangerous how do you validate a smoking ban? - Yahoo! Answers
    index

    (just a few)

  9. #159
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    ^Thanks for that. I noticed anti-smokers typically parrot the same things like automation robots, without so much as critical analysis of the research.

    Even when I wasn't smoking I found it hard to swallow some of the "evidence", particularly in sensationalist articles such as Picard's "Secondhand smoke can triple risk of lung cancer"

    How do you even prove something like that? Of course, the testing methodology for such leaves much to be desired, too.
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

  10. #160
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    OK, the first reference is from a group calling themselves C.L.A.S.H. or Citizens Against Smoker Harassment. Do you think they might have an agenda?

    The second is a guy who does lap band surgery for a living defending tobacco industry funded studies and flat out calling the Surgeon General "wrong". Serious credibility problems there.

    The third is clearly labeled as an "opinion" piece in a Libertarian publication decrying the infringements of smoker's "rights" by "the nanny state". He says the surgeon general is wrong and insults her physical size and shape as backing for his claim.

    The last one is just an internet chat and we all know how reliable those are.

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