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Thread: Carbs and fat loss page

  1. #1
    enriquegp's Avatar
    enriquegp is offline Junior Member
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    Primal Fuel


    As I look around the forums, I see plenty of people trying to lose fat by inducing ketosis. Not that there is anything wrong with this, but for anyone who is interested there is a simple way to shed off body fat while eating ice cream and pasta three times a week. Too good to be true? It's all about the timing. Mind you, this approach is not for everyone. Folks like DiabetesCanKissMyButt are at an absolute sweet spot for not only fat loss, but overall wellness. This post is not to discuss how this approach affects overall health, but to stress its effectiveness for fat loss. Many of you have already heard of Martin Berkhan's Leangains. An intermittent fasting protocol that also takes advantage of carb timing to deliver the best results. This is the post he made for The IF Life. I'll put a few of my own comments in brackets like [this].


    _________________________________________________

    Sure-Fire Fat Loss


    My name is Martin Berkhan and I work as a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer. I also happen to be a proponent of intermittent fasting for health, fitness and fat loss. I have my own blog about fasting (http://www.leangains.com), but when Mike asked me if I’d like to make a guest post on his blog, I thought that’d be a great way to present my method in greater detail.


    The Leangains protocol consists of two phases; 16 hours of fasting, followed by 8 hours of feeding. During this period, three meals are usually eaten. Depending on the day, the composition of those meals varies; on workout days, carbs are prioritized before fat, while on rest days fat intake is higher. Protein remains fairly high on all days. That’s a very basic and general description of the protocol I employ; of course, variables change depending on goals, gender, age, body fat and activity levels, but it would be hard to describe it in greater detail without drifting off too far[he has worked successfully with athletes and diabetics].


    Most of my clients are fitness enthusiasts, athletes and weight trainers, but the great majority of them have one thing in common – to look good naked. The ‘gain’ in Leangains can therefore be a bit misleading, as most of my clients wants to lose fat, while retaining as much muscle as possible in the process. While their diets might vary [some are given a diet very close to PB] , it rests on some nutritional principles that I thought I’d present to the crowd reading this post. These principles will work for everyone, regardless of fitness level.


    Here are a few guidelines that I consider success factors for performance, fat loss and excellent diet compliance.


    • On workout days, break the fast with meat, veggies and a fruit. If you’re planning to train shortly after this meal, add a few carbs in the form of a starch source – potatoes or whole grain bread, for example. Make it a medium sized meal and don’t stuff yourself. Train within 3 hrs of having eaten this meal [but I myself have gone longer with no adverse effects] and have a much larger meal after your workout [50-80% of total calories for that day, a bomb of 1200-1500 cal]; in this meal, add more complex carbs [upwards to 250 grams]– and you may even have one of your favourite treats as dessert, if it’s not too high in fat and if eaten in moderation. Good examples of what I refer to as ‘treats’: low fat ice cream, sorbet or JC’s cheesecake. Bad example: Chinese buffet or your son’s birthday cake. You get the point, keep it within moderation and don’t pig out.

    [Average macro composition: C:50% P:35% F:15% , Diabetics or one client with Crohn's disease would have some closer to C:25P:35 F:40, with a big fruit platter post-wokout]


    • On rest days, eat less calories[25% less, training day calories are about 13-15 x bodyweight] than on workout days - do this by cutting down on carb intake, and make meat, fibrous veggies and fruit the foundation of your diet for this day. The first meal of the day should be the largest, in contrast to workout days where the post-workout meal is the largest. Largest doesn’t necessarily mean largest in terms of volume; I suggest getting at least 40% of your calorie intake in this meal, and the dominant macronutrient should be protein [1.5x bodyweight]. I’ll have some clients eating upwards to 100 g protein in this meal, so don’t be afraid to pile on the meat (or whichever protein source you prefer). Fattier meat and fish like ground beef and salmon are examples of some excellent protein sources that may be consumed on rest days.

    [Macros: C:20 P:50 F:30, you can manipulate fat and carbs as you please]


    • In the last meal of the day, include a slow digesting protein source; preferably egg protein, cottage cheese (or any other source of casein based protein). Meat or fish is also ok if you add veggies or supplement with fiber. This meal will keep you full during the fast and exert an anti-catabolic effect on muscle protein stores by ensuring that your body has an ample supply of amino acids until the next meal.


    • Whole and unprocessed foods should always take priority over processed or liquid foods, unless circumstance demands a compromise. For example, you might find yourself in situations when there is little time to eat or prepare foods – in such a situation, having a protein shake or meal replacement bar is ok, where as solid, more satiating foods should be consumed whenever there is ample time to cook.


    These are a few of the principles I’ve employed with great success; there’s a bit more to it, but this should get you started in the right direction.

    __________________________________________________ _______________


    So there you have it: an effective and satiating plan with plenty of carbs. Now remember this is mostly a fat loss protocol, and I do not believe that it has the overreaching power of the PB. If I have taken anything away from this diet is a more lax attitude towards carbs. I keep it low on most days, but if there is some pasta or tortillas lying around I help myself to a serving after a heavy workout.


  2. #2
    Sue's Avatar
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    The thing is I don't want to be able to eat icecream and pasta three times per week. Though it won't impact on my fat loss its not healthy for me.

    I want to get past eating foods like that on a daily basis and only eat them occassionally. Besides, for me eating them regularly just sets me up for more cravings. So for someone like me it wouldn't suit.


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    That may 'work' for weight loss, but some of us care about our long term health also.


    There is no way I would introduce a starchy carb source into my diet, even if I am working out that day. It is an unnecessary health risk.


    I'm sticking with high fat paleo.

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    • Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . • Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . .• Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    • Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . • Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . • Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    • Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

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    Why would anyone want to restructure their life to eat carbs on a regular basis after experiencing the health and weight benefits of the PB?

    “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
    "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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    Why would anyone want to go through the brain-twisting math apparently involved in this protocol? Food should be instinctual, sensual, even spontaneous. It shouldn't be a chore.


    Regimented eating is boring enough.


    Painstakingly planned and timed meals designed to correspond to activities x,y, and z is just insane.


    And honestly, if you feel the need to preface a conversation with *disregard your overall health for a moment and listen to this great new weight loss strategy* then you haven't been paying attention to your surroundings.


    That kind of lapse would have turned Grok into the main course.


  6. #6
    enriquegp's Avatar
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    Serial Sinner

    Because there might be one or two people who don't really like going Primal. And to be be perfectly honest, this is an incredibly effective plateau breaker that, for me, works better than ketosis. Mind you, this was before I got into the Primal Community.

    BTW I LOVE your avatar


    Brain-twisting, brahnamin? It takes literally 5 minutes to figure everything out, and the meal timing is simplified, that you really don't waste time planning.


    "And honestly, if you feel the need to preface a conversation with *disregard your overall health for a moment and listen to this great new weight loss strategy* then you haven't been paying attention to your surroundings."


    Being a former client, not only did my weight decrease, but my strength increased, my insulin sensitivity improved dramatically, and all dental carries disappeared. All while having a carb bomb three times a week, sometimes even downing an entire box of cereal. If those aren't health benefits I don't know what are. But this was before I went full-on PB.


    Honestly, the biggest difference is that the food is tastier, and probably healthier too! I agree with you that meal timing can be a bit of a chore, so I basically worry less about it now. Besides,I love it that I can be lean on 6 eggs a day, butter with reckless abandon, whole avacodos, chicken skin, pate' and a whole slew of fatty french dishes. Moreover I can really be much more spontaneous in my food intake and my workouts. With Leangains, the workout are pretty much exactly the same, and although I enjoy them there is nothing quite like inventing a new Tabatta routine, or making up a random bodyweight or sprinting circuit. But if I ever grow a gut again (which at this point will take a miracle), I'll get rid of it with my tri-weekly non-fattening carb bombs.


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    If it works for you, fine.


    For me it's not just about losing weight, getting buff, or even my insulin numbers. It's about total health. It's about not walking around craving processed crap.(And again, if all you see in this site is people trying to get trim and pretty you're missing the point).


    To me what you are describing still looks regimented and boring . . . all for the questionable glory of getting to taste foods I'm no longer into - foods that wrecked my body the first time out - not just by fattening me up but by causing inflammation, high BP, out of control insulin, artery plaque, high cholesterol, and a mild host of respiratory issues.


    Erm . . . thanks, but no thanks.


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    "Serial Sinner

    Because there might be one or two people who don't really like going Primal."


    I dare say, if anybody here didn't like going Primal, they wouldn't be here. We all love our lifestyle. It's not a diet and it's not a chore. It's a chosen way of life.


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    And that's what I don't get about spam like this [and yeah, I'm calling it spam].


    Plainly there are millions of people who "might not want to go primal" . . . erm . . . they're everywhere. Why come here and push that schpiel?


    And claiming to be primal him/her/itself?


    Bah.


    I don't claim to be 100% primal [I'm still experimenting] but this creature doesn't begin to "get" primal if it thinks weight loss is the only thing primal is about.


  10. #10
    Conan's Avatar
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification


    This sounds like a combination of intermittent fasting and the Anabolic Diet. I've heard of some people having success with both so it doesn't surprise me if some people have success combining both of them. After reading up on the Anabolic Diet and the crash and burn cycles that those following it end up with, it doesn't seem worth it to me just for a few more pounds of muscle. I'd rather have a general set of guidelines and eat when I'm hungry.


    I'm not discounting the effectiveness of the original posters claims. It wouldn't surprise me if people are seeing great results (aesthetic, not neccessarily health) following this protocol.


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