Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Low carb paleo- a neolithic fantasy? page

  1. #1
    Horsewoman's Avatar
    Horsewoman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,510

    Low carb paleo- a neolithic fantasy?

    Primal Fuel
    Hurray, someone saying what I've been saying, only much better lol Low-Carb Paleo Diet: A Neolithic Fantasy Uncategorized Repair, Recover, Restore.

    I ust finished a book about a guy who stayed with 15 different tribes around the world. Some had a bit if basic agriculture, others were hunter-gather, but all of them ate starches as a mainstay of their diet (manioc for example). I just don't believe that paleolithic people didn't eat plenty of whatever roots, tubers and fruit they could find.

    I tried low carb for 9 months and went steadily downhill with energy and mood. Last winter, my SAD was hell, never been like that before, even pre-lightbox. Some days I couldn't get out of bed and my husband had to take the kids to school. I kept going, because I was convinced by what everyone was telling me, low carb was the way to go, especially if you're overweight, I just needed to keep going and it'd come good. Never again! And lately a lot of others have been coming out of the woodwork sayng they have similar issues.

    I can't eat starch as I am on a no starch diet for an autoimmune disease (AS), but am working on ways to get carbs without the standard sweet potatoes and so on. I do not believe that not thriving on vlc is a sign of a "broken metabolism". Just because some people do, that doesn't mean we all should. And I'm not here to get super lean, I'm here to get healthy.
    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
    Harold Whitman

  2. #2
    Mike Gager's Avatar
    Mike Gager is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Topeka, Kansas
    Posts
    1,067
    not sure what your question is but nowhere is it stated paleo or primal diet is a low carb diet. and when i say diet i mean way of eating, not weight loss plan. those of us who do have a bunch of weight to lose can use a low carb version of the paleo diet as it has been proven time and time again that it does work for the majority of people out there who do it correctly
    Primal Chaos
    37yo 6'5"
    6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
    current 338lbs 49" waist
    goal 240lbs 35" waist

  3. #3
    jammies's Avatar
    jammies is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,522
    Interesting article. Thanks for posting. I do have to wonder though how important carb cycling and caloric deficit were in the context of these diets. I can't imagine that there was always an abundance of starch sources or food in general. So it seems to me that humans would have had times of high fat, high protein, VLC and times of higher carb diets. There would likely also have been periods where there were very few calories available.

    So perhaps carbs and calories and best consumed in cycles? I think I naturally do this to some degree and sort of feel I don't do as well eating primally if I force myself into a specific macro ratio.

  4. #4
    iniQuity's Avatar
    iniQuity is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Northern NJ
    Posts
    5,672
    I think before we discovered or began using fire though our choices for starches and such were limited... fruits sure, but uncooked potatoes?

  5. #5
    weird fish's Avatar
    weird fish is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    304
    Thanks for posting the article - I didn't know that about Eskimo diets. Like you, I'm tired of the anti-carb/insulin dogma that has latched onto paleo. I don't think it deserves all the credit it gets as part of a paleo diet for fixing health problems. And it doesn't help that I completely crashed and burned with it after a few weeks of feeling fantastic. Everyone should read "The Catecholamine Honeymoon" (which is linked on this article). It makes sense of why different strategies of weight loss work until they don't.

    I think jammies has got the right idea - carb cycling and calorie cycling seem like they are important to body composition and metabolic health in general.

  6. #6
    donjon's Avatar
    donjon is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by iniQuity View Post
    I think before we discovered or began using fire though our choices for starches and such were limited... fruits sure, but uncooked potatoes?
    Who cares? I'm sure we couldn't do a lot of things without our technological prowess.

  7. #7
    Lewis's Avatar
    Lewis is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Horsewoman View Post
    Hurray, someone saying what I've been saying, only much better lol Low-Carb Paleo Diet: A Neolithic Fantasy Uncategorized Repair, Recover, Restore.
    A Neolithic fantasy? People in the Neolithic were not "fantasizing" about the Palaeolithic. They weren't even aware of it. Those are modern classifications.

    ... a [man] who stayed with 15 different tribes around the world. Some had ... basic agriculture, others were hunter-gather[ers], but all of them ate starches as a mainstay of their diet (manioc for example). I just don't believe that paleolithic people didn't eat plenty of whatever roots, tubers and fruit they could find.
    What any of us "just don't believe" has nothing to do with anything. The question is what was available to those people, given their location, the climatic conditions, and the season of year. So far as I know no-one has ever alleged this did not ever include roots or fruit. But how on earth could you know that would mean "plenty" of both, or either, at all times and in all places across this vast period? And just by sitting there, without conducting palaeobotanic surveys, and so forth? Have you got a time machine?

    As for this gentleman, if he just stayed with them, then by definition none of them were Palaelothic. (Sometimes I just wish some people would drop these tiresomely mis-used "Palaeolithic" and "Neolithic" labels, which have nothing to do with either age in the way that they use them.

    And, yes, I'm sure some of these tribal peoples hie visited ate starchy foods. So what?

    I tried low carb for 9 months and went steadily downhill with energy and mood.
    Then don't do it. But what has this to do with what people ate in the Palaeolithic? Nothing.

    I can't eat starch as I am on a no starch diet for an autoimmune disease (AS), but am working on ways to get carbs without the standard sweet potatoes and so on.
    Basically, what you have left is fruit and honey. If you want carbohydrate but you don't want to eat starch, then you must eat simple sugars. That means fruit and/or honey.
    Last edited by Lewis; 09-22-2011 at 12:21 PM.

  8. #8
    iniQuity's Avatar
    iniQuity is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Northern NJ
    Posts
    5,672
    Quote Originally Posted by donjon View Post
    Who cares? I'm sure we couldn't do a lot of things without our technological prowess.
    that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is it's unlikely that before fire we were eating too much starch. For the record, I eat plenty of starch. I was arguing against the "we probably ate starch all the time" point. I say not until we started cooking shit.

  9. #9
    Horsewoman's Avatar
    Horsewoman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post


    What any of us "just don't believe" has nothing to do with anything. The question is what was available to those people, given their location, the climatic conditions, and the season of year. So far as I know no-one has ever alleged this did not ever include roots or fruit. But how on earth could you know that would mean "plenty" of both, or either, at all times and in all places across this vast period? And just by sitting there, without conducting palaeobotanic surveys, and so forth? Have you got a time machine?

    As for this gentleman, if he just stayed with them, then by definition none of them were Palaelothic. (Sometimes I just wish some people would drop these tiresomely mis-used "Palaeolithic" and "Neolithic" labels, which have nothing to do with either age in the way that they use them.

    And, yes, I'm sure some of these tribal peoples hie visited ate starchy foods. So what?



    Then don't do it. But what has this to do with what people ate in the Palaeolithic? Nothing.

    Of course none of the tribes were paleolithic lol. I still found it surprising that very starchy foods were such a mainstay even for the hunter gatherers. The point I found interesting was that ALL the tribes at considerable amounts of starches as a staple, except for one who are reindeer herders in frozen Russia (Nenets).

    The connection with the paleolithic is that we call this paleo eating. It doesn't make sense to argue the paleolithic is of no relevance. If considerable portions of people don't do well on vlc, that supports the theory that we didn't evolve eating vlc, as some claim. The basis of eating "paleo" is supposed to be that it is returning to the diet we evolved to eat, which is therefore the most healthy. But I assume you know this.

    As for "believing", I was referring to a belief based on surveying the available information, not something nebulous sucked out of thin air. Maybe that's a British turn of phrase, I don't know. If you read my post you will see I said they would have eaten "plenty of whatever... they could find", not "plenty". Roots, tubers and/ or fruit would have been available in much of the world, my point is that it seems unlikely that people would have overlooked or turned down a ready source of calories.

    I'd much rather hear what people actually think about the article, rather than a blow by blow attack on what I said. I'd be interested to hear your views if you feel like sharing them.
    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
    Harold Whitman

  10. #10
    Horsewoman's Avatar
    Horsewoman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,510
    PrimalCon New York
    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    Interesting article. Thanks for posting. I do have to wonder though how important carb cycling and caloric deficit were in the context of these diets. I can't imagine that there was always an abundance of starch sources or food in general. So it seems to me that humans would have had times of high fat, high protein, VLC and times of higher carb diets. There would likely also have been periods where there were very few calories available.

    So perhaps carbs and calories and best consumed in cycles? I think I naturally do this to some degree and sort of feel I don't do as well eating primally if I force myself into a specific macro ratio.
    That's an interesting point. Seasonal variations could be important I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by weird fish View Post
    Thanks for posting the article - I didn't know that about Eskimo diets. Like you, I'm tired of the anti-carb/insulin dogma that has latched onto paleo. I don't think it deserves all the credit it gets as part of a paleo diet for fixing health problems. And it doesn't help that I completely crashed and burned with it after a few weeks of feeling fantastic. Everyone should read "The Catecholamine Honeymoon" (which is linked on this article). It makes sense of why different strategies of weight loss work until they don't.

    I think jammies has got the right idea - carb cycling and calorie cycling seem like they are important to body composition and metabolic health in general.
    Thanks, I will look at that.
    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
    Harold Whitman

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •