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  1. #11
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    Groktimus Primal's - Idea Who's Time Has Come

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    Groktimus Primal's - Idea Who's Time Has Come

    I've heard people say everything old is new again at some point and it couldn't be truer for the Primal diet. I've noticed that the most correct answers tend to be the simplest. When someone tries to sell you an overly processed and complex fancy solution it is usually just trappings to distract you and get you on board with something expensive and flashy. While there is substantial work in farming, companies essentially exploit natural resources for a profit. Due to the "value" they add by destroying the food they set themselves apart and create profit margins. Corporations have done an excellent job snowballing us into buying these byproducts of food.

    I am presently reading Appetite for Profit. It is a wonderful book referenced by Mark which helped me spawn this topic. It is a very long read and I must say I do not entirely agree with the author. She is obviously pro-regulation and while I don't like the corporations in the driver's seat I would be equally uncomfortable with the government. Since it seems like a lose-lose situation I obviously do not hold the answer. Also the author is a vegan and while she tries hard not to be "a pushy vegan" she does come right out and say that she believes it to be the healthy way to eat. If someone as obviously brilliant as her doesn't understand what is healthy then what chance do we have if we let any government, corporation or individual tell us what is healthy? I listen to Mark but I am always the in my driver's seat and I know Mark would expect that.

    I find it very difficult to believe anyone without an agenda would question our genetics and what our species developed on being the right way to go. Sure there are unanswered questions but I don't think even the most pig headed would say we developed without substantial meat in the diet. How can nature be wrong when we are a a product of it? Sure you can argue sustainable this, and sustainable that but we can not solve tomorrows problems without making sure we take care of today. So if meat or anything else is the problem fine, fix it, but I won't go along with it if my already overpriced food is going to be substantially more expensive or unavailable.

    Strange how everything comes full circle. It makes one question some of the motives of why we ever left what was working in the first place. I haven't finished the book yet but I am not very hopeful in finding a real workable solution to our food problems in it.

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    Last edited by jfrendek; 10-04-2011 at 06:27 AM.

  2. #12
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    I feel the same way about Mark - it's hard to wrap your mind around how many people he's helped. I have to give him partial credit for helping me conquer severe cystic acne, hormonal imbalances, and also for helping me to really see the world around for what it really is. He teaches people to think critically and to ask questions, and that's pretty priceless. I felt the same way about the supplements and the books at first, but I quickly realized how much free information he provides. You don't need his book or his supplements to transform your life, and I think that's pretty cool.
    Mama Foxglove's Primal Pregnancy Journal

    "Leave your drugs in the chemist's pot, if you can heal your patient with food." - Hippocrates

  3. #13
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    Primal Topic - Selling the Value

    Primal Topic - Selling the Value

    That's the title of a class they are having where I work.

    When did life become a dirty shell game? I love money as much as anyone else but I don't sit around trying to stick it to the guy next to me all day.

    Like Mark says take care of yourself so you can enjoy life (play). Everyone's heard the eat to live, not live to eat philosophy. To me this translates into make money to live, not live to make money. I think we have really lost sight of this in our consumer driven economy and oh boy Christmas is coming! (in October so it appears)

    Somehow we crowned money king and now it rules us.

    Sometimes I wonder what global greedy conspiracy helped foster that or if it truly is our base nature. Perhaps we will someday flip from the me..me..me... more...more...more... to a more enlightened evolved altruism. Even if we are still evolving in any meaningful way I'm not holding my breath. I'm not even sure that would be a survival strategy. I have struggled all my life to see the forest for the trees. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king

    In my last post I stated I was not willing to sacrifice today for a better tomorrow unless said sacrifice was clearly livable and worthwhile judged by my own standards. I suppose that's common sense and the question has always been where to draw the line. A friend once told me that doing the right thing is often easy but knowing what that is, is nearly impossible!

    One of the more disturbing things seems to be the proportion of scams to reasonable offers. When I was younger there were actual ads that had value. Now everything is a $19.95 late night TV deal kind of worthless thing. It seems there is almost no room for an honest offer.

    If someone tries to sell me one more thing I'm gonna.... * BOOM *

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    Last edited by jfrendek; 10-05-2011 at 09:31 AM.

  4. #14
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    Groktimus Primal's - The Worst Time to Shop

    Groktimus Primal's - The Worst Time to Shop

    Why that would be 7-Eleven!

    I have read Mark's writing in which he referenced seeing the world through a "primal lens". Even though I have been off real junk food for many years I had the misfortune of visiting a 7-Eleven recently because my girlfriend loves big fountain drinks and her mom loves coffee. It had been so long since I set foot in one I was surprised by my own horrific reaction.

    Let me explain...

    While she was getting the drinks I amused and educated myself by browsing the store. I have been in that store and many convenience stores over the course of my life but it was almost like I had landed on an alien planet. Between what I had learned and how long I had "been clean" the place knocked my sensibilities senseless.

    First I noticed all the unnaturally bright packaging attempting to lure in anyone who wasn't blinded by the spectacle. Next I noticed the pastries/donuts near the coffee island. It's like an episode of consumer "Survivor". Then I saw the "Neon Sugar Slush" known as Slurpee's and the enormous cup sizes. I then surveyed the vast array of chips, candies, soda, energy drinks (very prominent), nuts, jerky, power bars and the lifeless sandwiches containing small quantities of processed meat with very little vegetation and huge buns. Small amounts of basic fruit, yogurt and cheese were nearby. Want some trail mix? I hope you like M&M’s and/or Chex Mix grain based products with that.

    Another scary element near the gum and candy filled register was the food bar where you can purchase hotdogs, cheeseburger dogs?!?, Nachos with Cheez Wiz and probably salmonella. Of course the tobacco and girlie mags are still available behind the counter. Not that I have a problem with the girlie mags

    I took note that the very few items that might be eaten as a last resort were intentionally contaminated. Fruits are coated if not served in a sugar solution, meat is processed, power bars are high in sugar even if they claim to be low carb. I'm still trying to wrap my head around a cheeseburger dog rotating for hours on end like a typical hotdog. I didn’t think the immortal hotdogs were scary enough did you? I think if you were truly screwed and had no other real choice to grab something to eat and you weren’t in a position to just seize the opportunity to fast you would have to eat something like this…

    Bottled water
    Beef Jerky (always somewhat contaminated)
    Cheese sticks
    Apple / Orange (coated)
    Maybe a salad if you were fortunate enough to find one that isn’t too sad (yeah that’ll happen)

    Does Mark offer a Damage Control Formula for a diet that has been devastated? To add a little additional insult a store like that is terminally over priced to start with. The price of convenience is higher than ever! I guess we are just lucky that booze, gambling and prostitution are not available too. We could bring down mankind with a one-stop-shop. Gas might just be the most useful and sometimes more affordable thing they sell. The next time you set foot in one of these places do so consciously and have the same experience I did. Who would think there was so much to write about from a store I didn’t even make a purchase in. I guess my not making a purchase is somewhat the point!

    Organic, free range, grass fed, rotating cheeseburger dog anyone?

    3… 2… 1… Soapbox dismount complete!

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  5. #15
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    Groktimus Primal’s – The New Book

    Groktimus Primal’s – The New Book

    As all devote followers know Mark is coming out with a new book on October 18th called The Primal Blueprint 21-Day Total Body Transformation. Like most everything he writes I’m sure it will be fantastic and include enough new insights and colorful writing to make it worth reading even if you have practically memorized his other works. I will certainly buy it (in Kindle format) to both read and support Mark’s efforts.

    As Mark said himself this book is likely to become a best seller and bring Primal eating into the limelight. This is good, not just good but great obviously so why am I bothering to write this? Well you see I have been here before. I had success with the Atkin’s diet and I managed a GNC and I saw all the products and the people succeeding. I also saw a lot of people who thought they were following the diet but weren’t and a lot of products that claimed to be compatible with the diet but really were just taking advantage of people.

    I thought for a while that the truth would set you free and people would learn by seeing the high success rate and telling one another about it. Unfortunately, accept for the relatively few unbrainwashable people who quietly continued to enjoy a hard fought truth the conventional wisdom hammered away at it and Doctor Atkin’s passed away and the quick buck companies stopped smelling blood in the water and many of the products and services disappeared.

    This will happen with the Primal diet as well for the following reasons… Conventional wisdom is so well funded. The corporations do not make money if they do not create processed food. Like most things of value, good food costs more than eating the cardboard box does, but eating the cardboard box does not make it food. Nutrition can be confusing, especially if confusion is the goal. Our government is bought and paid for. They will not tell you to stop eating anything that profits the industry even though it is the people and the farmers they should be worried about. If we do not have good food, water and air nothing else matters. Who worries about being late to work while having a heart attack?

    I don’t enjoy sounding gloomy (well sometimes maybe) but it’s not all bad. There is still plenty of good that can be done via grassroots movements just don’t expect it to ever become the conventional wisdom. If it does then there is a good chance it may be wrong too! I enjoyed the Atkin’s heyday but I was depressed when society turned away from it and started shoving not just carbs but processed carbs back down everyone’s throats. You will find the people in-the-know will stick to it no matter what anyone may say but those folks that were just looking for a new “diet religion” to save them from “obesity hell” who have a half-assed approach will quickly cave. They might as well pick up some Frankenberry cereal now.

    I must admit both with Primal and low carb knowledge it crossed my mind that perhaps I would rather the “secret” not get out. I know it’s selfish but as Mark said we are competing in the world and due to the laws of supply and demand suppose we found that what little edible food is left was no longer attainable except by the rich? Luckily or unluckily it seems most people have little conviction and almost ask to be lied to. I was a poor GNC salesperson because I could not tell people what they wanted to hear which was basically… “Yeah, just take these pills I have right here for $39.99 and the pounds will melt off!” When the truth is health/weight loss doesn’t come from a bottle and if it did I would have sold out at any price and the FDA would have shut me down the next week for selling something “dangerous” to the “dumb” general public.

    Let’s end on a happy note, even though the truth will not set you free it is damn near impossible to completely kill. The opposition will always have to use suppression and distraction tactics because their arguments have little foundation. To me nature is the closest thing to a one true God and he/she/it cannot by definition be wrong.

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  6. #16
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    Groktimus Primal’s – I-Caveman Thoughts

    Groktimus Primal’s – I-Caveman Thoughts

    I watched Robb Wolf, Morgan Spurlock and host of 8 others I had never heard of partake in the Discovery Channel’s primal living experiment. To a large degree it was what I expected. Only the strong (and strong willed) survive and it’s no picnic even for those that have the right stuff. No matter how much a person knows and studies I have concluded that if you dropped them into the wilderness even with a few minor essentials many would not come out alive if truly left alone for a significant time.
    The devil is in the details. Creating shelter, fire, weapons and clothes are difficult without specialized knowledge and much practice. Finding much in the way of edible plants is challenging even if you know what is edible. Hunting? You are up against animals that have evolved to elude all but the most high tech methods. Try surviving without knives, flint and steel or any real food or water to start out with. Without guns and ammo it’s pretty tough. They only had some animal skins and a basic shelter pre-set-up for them.

    These people didn’t represent your typical American’s however. While they were not supermen and woman many of them had backgrounds and physical qualities that made them far more suitable than dropping into a trailer park and saying ” You… you… and you… welcome to the wilderness!”.

    Just the social dynamics alone were terrible. Some were whiners (especially when cold or hungry). Some worked hard while others looked like they were waiting for welfare to be invented. Thankfully some showed genius. One lady looked like she couldn’t hack one night in the cold with shelter and a fire provided but then out of nowhere she bucked-up and became the genius who created a water filtration system out of more-or-less dirt. Society does apparently need rules and diversity.

    Overall I liked it. It needed to be done and I’m glad I watched it. I am a fan of Spurlock and Robb Wolf and I got the impression that it was reasonably done rather than just contrived to entertain like most mindless TV (especially the “reality” crap).

    Also let me say that I watched the show from bed. Yes I was not even upright while “judging” these folks and I am probably closer to the “trailer” folks I jokingly referenced above than I am to being a biochemist which Robb is so please take my musings as just that and watch it for yourself if at all possible. I would support most anything project Robb or Spurlock might be involved in. Also I readily acknowledge I could not do that. I can’t even say I have gone soft because I was never that hard to start with. Just not being able to take Excedrin for my migraines would send me running for momma.

    I think life lessons are important but I must agree with Mark Sisson. Sometimes being Primal means using TiVo to ensure you get proper sleep while watching people suffer in judgment from the laziness of your bed -Yes, I took a few liberties with that statement.

    I give it two snaps up!
    Last edited by jfrendek; 10-09-2011 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #17
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    Groktimus Primal’s – Sleep

    Groktimus Primal’s – Sleep

    Why write about sleep? Because like most things I have discovered I was wrong (or at least not entirely correct).

    Sleep truly is important but you never realize it until you are old enough to feel it and contemplate it. The young, if they think about it at all just see it as something to take for granted or an annoyance / interruption to the game of life. Perhaps a necessary evil that you can easily catch up on later if you feel the need. Going Primal opened my eyes to many things I never even thought to consider.

    Why is it important?

    Healing and renewal probably along with many things we know or think we know such as memory sorting and storage. There are likely many reasons we need sleep for which we haven’t even speculated yet. We can infer that it is important in many ways. It is not optional, we feel lousy if we don’t get enough and the old Primal standby of… we evolved to do it. I find I need about 8 hours of what I perceive to be quality sleep. Catching up on sleep seems only semi-possible. (like all quick fixes)

    One of the best things (aside from feeling decent) about getting enough sleep that many people never consider is this… When you are constantly rundown and feeling like hell you are more likely to get sick. Conversely if you are always rundown and feeling like hell how do you know you’re not sick? You wouldn’t run a 4 cylinder car on 3 would you and you certainly couldn’t tell if you had another issue at the same time if you did.

    Aside from destroying your quality of life not feeling your best everyday will definitely take a toll on your potential. Steve Jobs recently died and I heard someone say that he had been ill a long time and imagine what he could have accomplished if he had been 100% and lived longer! It’s amazing what he accomplished while ill but just imagine.

    I wake up at night gasping and sometimes have nightmares and anxiety. I have been diagnosed with sleep apnea (long ago). The more weight I lose the better it gets. In my opinion a CPAP machine is not an option although some people swear by them. I swore at one! They help your apnea by ensuring you never sleep thus you never have apnea. Now I know sleep apnea can cause heart problems including heart failure. I probably lose more than sleep such as brain cells that I can ill afford to lose. I may sometimes think I got a good night’s rest while really it was just an experiment in oxygen deprivation. I consider the path to health my only answer. I have much improved already.

    When you’re never rested you don’t know what you’re missing. Fatigue is the great pretender. You can have a bad heart and feel tired all the time. Perhaps it's chronic fatigue syndrome or any number of autoimmune disorders / deficiencies. Chronic inflammation comes to mind too. Considering how bad our medical care is I certainly don’t want to make any condition worse or more complicated. It almost seems like “Doctor Google” is more helpful.

    ZZZZZZzzzzzzz….

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  8. #18
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    Groktimus Primal’s – Losing My Religion

    Groktimus Primal’s – Losing My Religion


    All right, I’ll just admit it. I’m an agnostic at best. Partly because I don’t know if there is a God and partly because if you say you’re an atheist people think you’re in league with Satan and I am definitely not in league with the food industry. I am not anti-God I just think like Captain Kirk. If an all powerful being arrived and started making proclamations I would suspect it was an alien first. Faith is not my strong point and that applies to most people as well.


    So if I am a God-less heathen then what do I “pray” to? Loosely you might say Mother Nature but when push comes to shove I usually go with science. Unfortunately I am not a scientist, researcher, statistician or a genius. I read the news articles like everyone else. The serious down side to this is that people lie. Everyone knows that people lie but when the true staggering weight of the lies hit you it’s really like a sucker punch.

    The deal is so rotten it almost makes our system worse than having none at all. You may have noticed that contradictory news about diet, exercise and supplementation (along with most everything else) seems to be produced daily. It’s also no coincidence that articles that appose one another come out around the same time. What you are seeing is corruption and sensationalism in action. Those two things have become more important than the truth. I believe that sometimes confusion is part of the goal.


    Here’s how it works…


    A study is funded by a company who desires a specific outcome in order to sell a product or service. They “shop” for doctors, scientists and researchers that are “agreeable to money”. They get the desired answer that is supposedly backed by science and then use it to profit at our expense.


    For example, perhaps I supply beef. Well then I’m a paying member of an organization that has just “scientifically” discovered that beef is the bee’s knees. So you go read the news articles and see this lovely report that is really an advertisement design to bypass your brain’s check point for bogus information and maybe start to “buy” into it. Believe me, someone is paying for the news and it is us via bad quality.


    Now perhaps I’m a hostile vegan attempting to save the planet by making everyone else miserable and bend to my will and I’m a member of (insert very important sounding BS name here). Guess what? I’ve just discovered that after three bites of meat your likely hood of dropping dead goes up 10% and I have the bought-and-paid-for like-minded people with me to “prove” it!


    The media is happy to publish easily gleaned stories and receive corporate dollars but naturally they want to give both sides of a debate access to the public. This does two things, many times the media makes money by playing both sides of a debate. A big selling point to this is the sensationalism. If no controversy exists then it is considered too boring. Who wants to be smarter when we can watch a soap opera instead? When the news is basically an “ad between ads” what’s the problem?

    So who can you trust? It’s a constant battle and after being born into an environment designed to swindle you (like the Matrix) you can’t even trust yourself. Do you want to take the red pill or the blue pill Neo? Hyper awareness and vigilance for a life time is the only defense. Like they say, someone always has a bridge to sell you and there is a sucker born every minute (and groomed to be one). So find out the motives of the people funding the studies and don’t even bother to read them (you will know the preconceived results anyway). Actually read them and evaluate them with a high index of suspicion!


    In a world that values money above all else there is no product, service or industry that is safe. We are truly reaping what we sew and it’s not quality. Almost all research is tainted in some way. After all who is going to pay for it? Benefit to mankind is considered a poor return on investment. It’s a fundamental flaw in a free market economy and human nature.


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  9. #19
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    Groktimus Primal’s – Like a Bat out of Hell

    Groktimus Primal’s – Like a Bat out of Hell

    Einstein theorized that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. I can testify that the numbers on the scale often qualify as a constant! It took about a month to drop 1 stinking pound beneath my lowest weight reading. I can’t complain though as I lost about 60 pounds in 6 months prior to my plateau. I think all dieters (excuse me, lifestylers) hit a depressing wall at some point unless they are truly starving themselves to death. The nice thing about Low Carb Primal is you continue to feel better and lose slowly. Having such confidence in the diet (along with craving suppression) means you’re never tempted to quit. It helps you relish the path even through periods of slow loss.

    Also it was amazing how lazy I was (or am). I only did the smallest bit of conscious exercise along with my Low Carb Primal eating. I usually maintain a slight state of ketosis to keep the locomotive from dying on the tracks. I am pretty rigid about my eating and supplementation. I have started taking Mark’s Advanced Health Formula and I think it’s a fantastic product. I am feeling better but I can’t say how much is due to the supplements. I admit I didn’t want to pony-up for the Master Formula nor did I want to take 12 pills a day of which it is probably wise to split the dose.

    To help break the plateau I did cut back on my calorie intake slightly and ever so slightly increased the amount exercise. I still think the plateau may have broken by now either way. Eating low carb definitely provides one with a large advantage. While I am not entirely immune to calories I’m quite certain I would be packing on the pounds if I did not have what Dr. Atkin’s use to call “The Atkin’s Advantage”. Mark is spot on when he says “It’s all about insulin control”. The most amazing attribute (besides the loss) is the hunger suppression. I can fast for a full day before I can honestly say I’m hungry and my energy and mood start to decline. It surely contributes to its effectiveness.

    Like a typical human I am given a miracle and often wish for more. I need to remember that saving my life should be enough reward for me.

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  10. #20
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    Groktimus Primal’s – Degeneration

    Groktimus Primal’s – Degeneration

    I can understand why people look to the past. I find it very depressing when I think about the future given the currents state of now and the trajectory we seem to be on. Modern conveniences aside, I find it difficult to point to any edifice of society heading in the right direction.

    Many on this site probably have a good idea of how broken our food industry and eating habits are but let’s take an example of employment (or lack thereof). As a child grows up he attends an ill funded overcrowded school that probably exposes him to violence and tormenting. If he survives and graduates he will be very lucky to be able to afford college assuming he has enough intelligence and positive influences in his life to even want to. If a child does not attend college (and pick the right major with no life experience to draw on) his likely hood of success is almost nil in this job market. Perhaps a guidance counselor can help him. Oh that’s right, a guidance counselor only turned out be a guidance counselor and who wants to take advice from him?

    Assuming he manages to find employment it is very likely that it will be low paying and place unreasonable demands on him. Soon he will learn that if you work hard in many jobs the most reward you can hope for may be continued employment at best but a meaningful raise is pretty much ancient history. At this point he will notice that his job is not important and it is not a career. He will see his coworkers slacking off and calling out sick and generally getting away with it (no one works here for more than two months anyway he might say) for the same pay as he is getting. Soon the lesson will sink in that hard work is not rewarded and poor work is not punished then who is the lame brained sucker? Heck maybe his friends have welfare babies and don’t even go to work, fake disabilities or unemployment surf. They may even be doing something illegal. Even frivolous lawsuits might be more lucrative. All the while the true cost of living increases. Now enter the next generation and much like Star Trek, in my opinion the next generation can’t hold a candle to the original.

    I’ve already put my two cents in regarding healthcare not! We are building the pyramid upside down and creating a top heavy world. Nothing can support its own weight anymore. It’s like when people joke that the copper in a penny is worth more than the penny. It’s probably true but if it isn’t it certainly will become so at some point. We do have to get back to the basics and commonsense in many areas. Perhaps Primal Living can also take on political and social problems to some extent. What would Grok do anyway? Maybe I should borrow his club. Do you think Mark would like to be known as “Fearless Leader”? I’d probably vote for him as long as he promised a grass fed chicken in every pot

    I feel confident stating that Grok would not have been a politically correct imbecile.

    We are Devo!

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