Going Wild (Drssgchic) page 60

[canio6]

Interesting/conflicting church.
I'm not following the whole losing the soil, I can see creating soil from trees, rocks, etc., but once it IS, isn't it always?

I'm definitely not a soils expert or a farmer or such, but it seems to me that healthy top soil can easily be robbed of nutrients (usefulness) by over farming, lack of crop rotation, erosion, comtamination or various other man-made causes. As such while the volume of dirt might remain the actual amount of useful soil decreases.

[drssgchic]

Well, let's think about this. Pro-choice is about assuming that a person could/should make intellegent decisions about their own body and putting the rights of the person above the rights of the potential person. If a person is alive, they can still make amends and come to understand that what they did was wrong. Compassion and all that.

On the other hand- "pro-life" is about putting the rights of the potential Religious Right joiner over the rights of the actual heretic that dared to spead her legs outside of marraige. If they did something that puts them on death row, then they aren't Good Christians (tm) and are therefore unnecessary. Not to mention the number of conversions that happen when you know exactly when your number is up

My solution? Kill them all. (I almost said "and let God sort them out" but that's a quote from the Crusades)

It has been proven that the more educated a woman is, and the more opportunities she has, the fewer children she has. Hence, the pro CHOICE option of telling them what leads to what and how to manage that. There are few women that WANT to be walking uteruses, but too often that is our greatest value. 'Course, if your sex ed is "Don't" then when the animal side wins out, and it will against such a weak arguement, accidents happen. I had a great sex ed class. Trust me, talking about sex did NOT make me promiscuous as is the arguement. Knowing the potential outcomes, actually talking about it had quite the opposite effect on me.

[justyouraveragecavemen]

I'm definitely not a soils expert or a farmer or such, but it seems to me that healthy top soil can easily be robbed of nutrients (usefulness) by over farming, lack of crop rotation, erosion, comtamination or various other man-made causes. As such while the volume of dirt might remain the actual amount of useful soil decreases.

I see that, but add more shit then. The county I live in is probably 80% farmland and we've just got past the time of year when farmers spread chickenshit on every field around, it makes for a piss poor time of year to be outside. We even had a big stink about big cities trucking in sewage for the farmers, pun intended.

[canio6]

My solution? Kill them all. (I almost said "and let God sort them out" but that's a quote from the Crusades)

The Albigensian Crusade so it was Christians killing Christians which I think is allowed under current PC guidelines

[canio6]

I see that, but add more shit then. The county I live in is probably 80% farmland and we've just got past the time of year when farmers spread chickenshit on every field around, it makes for a piss poor time of year to be outside. We even had a big stink about big cities trucking in sewage for the farmers, pun intended.

Then you have excess nitrates leaching into drinking water etc. There is a reason cattle farms are one of the largest polluters. Again, I am no expert (hopefully drssgchic will chime in) but I think there is more to healthy soil than shit content.

[canio6]

Well, let's think about this. Pro-choice is about ... snipped.

I couldn't care less about the religious right as I am not religious, though I often consider myself right (not necessarily politically...well, at times, but anyway...). I guess I consider it the life of an innocent vs. the life of the less than. If someone murders someone how exactly do they make amends for that? If they knew it was wrong and still did it how will they make up for that? All a baby did was get conceived. I am not against a woman's right to choose (I am against how it was foisted on to the country and would have preferred other means of doing so) but I fail to see the logic in advocating for killing the innocent but sparing the guilty.

Edit: I like your take...kill them all. At least it is consistent, even if I do not necessarily agree

[justyouraveragecavemen]

Well, let's think about this. Pro-choice is about assuming that a person could/should make intellegent decisions about their own body and putting the rights of the person above the rights of the potential person. If a person is alive, they can still make amends and come to understand that what they did was wrong. Compassion and all that.

On the other hand- "pro-life" is about putting the rights of the potential Religious Right joiner over the rights of the actual heretic that dared to spead her legs outside of marraige. If they did something that puts them on death row, then they aren't Good Christians (tm) and are therefore unnecessary. Not to mention the number of conversions that happen when you know exactly when your number is up
I

Super not agreeing with you on this, which is perfectly ok, I also don't want to argue about it. But you're lumping the word choice to describe premarital sex in with choice as in ending a life. I also don't believe there are "potential people", just people.

[drssgchic]

Interesting/conflicting church.
I'm not following the whole losing the soil, I can see creating soil from trees, rocks, etc., but once it IS, isn't it always?

Soil is a compliation of biotic and abiotic factors that actually have a very complex relationship. Depending on where you are, it is harder or easier to upset that relationship. In Alabama, you'd have to put some effort into it. You have lots of water and lots of plants which support lots of decomposers- assuming they haven't all been killed by pesticides. Organic ones kill good bugs just like inorganic ones, so if you use any, it's easy to kill the good guys. Out here, we might only have an inch or two of topsoil due to our lack of water and the plants and decomposers that water would support.

More to the point, though, and I have heard this from both scientists and landscapers, urban landscaping is a bitch. The soil that was 10 or 12 feet down- which is generally lots of clay and not many bugs, is now your topsoil. Adding shit will help- but if there are no microorganisms to break it down, it doesn't really do any good. Of course, this is assuming you're country enough to know that "good shit" means something other than drugs

The dust-bowl was the rich topsoil of the pairie blowing away because the pairie grasses had been removed and the soil had been tilled and left bare for too long. The Desert of Maine (which is awesome, btw) is also the result of the removal of topsoil. In this case, over-grazing sheep on a very thin crust of top soil over sand left by glaciers. Then, as Canio mentioned, there's just wearing it out without actually physically removing it. Taking from and not giving back.

/science lesson

My church isn't conflicted in the slightest about killing babies and not killing adults

The Albigensian Crusade so it was Christians killing Christians which I think is allowed under current PC guidelines

Oh. Well in that case- kill them all and let THEIR God sort them out!

[justyouraveragecavemen]

In Alabama, you'd have to put some effort into it. You have lots of water and lots of plants which support lots of decomposers-

Did you just call me a decomposer?

[drssgchic]

Then you have excess nitrates leaching into drinking water etc. There is a reason cattle farms are one of the largest polluters. Again, I am no expert (hopefully drssgchic will chime in) but I think there is more to healthy soil than shit content.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Nitrates washing down through the soil and phospehates washing off the surface- both poisoning water sources when used in excess. It's not "cattle farms" that are the problem. Properly managed cattle farming does not have a larger shit input than the decomposers available can handle. Now when we get into over-populated cattle and, the worst offenders CAFOs, the decomposers are overwhelmed if not outright poisoned by the shit output.

One of the other interesting points the soil instructor brought up was that all shit is not created equal. You get out of it what you put into it. In other words, the better the input in the mouth end (biologically appropriate, correct amounts of trace minerals) the higher quality what comes out the back end will be.

Super not agreeing with you on this, which is perfectly ok, I also don't want to argue about it. But you're lumping the word choice to describe premarital sex in with choice as in ending a life. I also don't believe there are "potential people", just people.

Please bear in mind that I am bitter today.

My understanding is that in the Jewish tradition, if it comes down to having to choose between saving a mother or saving the baby, they must save the mother. She is a person (I believe they do/did not consider an infant to be a person for about a week due to the fragility of life right after birth) and she probably has other children and a husband that rely on her skills and abilities whereas the infant will be just another burden for quite a few years to come. If you kill a person, it is murder. If there is a miscarraige, it's usually not even referred to as the fetus dying. It's a totally different wording because it is a totally different question. When you are talking about the rights of two people that are in a symbiotic relationship like a mother and fetus, one set has to override the other. It is a matter of which set you choose. I am on the side of the mother. I understand not everyone is. (And I appreciate your respectful disagreement. We don't have to agree, but we do have to disagree nicely )

Canio- There are a very few people that have realized what they did was wrong and have then gone out to make changes in the world that the world needs. What's the phrase- every saint has a past and every sinner has a future? That's what they're banking on. Thing is, there are also the ones that have been kept alive and continue to poison the world. On the other hand, if you kill them, you kill the bad apples along with a few "oopsies" of the judiciary system and the potential saints.

In other news- that ain't rain coming down right now. That's snow. I TOLD her not to plant her tomato plants this early!