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Thread: The Placebo effect.... page

  1. #1
    kenn's Avatar
    kenn is offline Senior Member
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    The Placebo effect....

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  2. #2
    Shijin13's Avatar
    Shijin13 is offline Senior Member
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    Aren't most of those adverse events typical with most vaccines???? btw pyrexia - is fever...
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  3. #3
    Yvonne PHX's Avatar
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    Ha! Indeed!! I, for one, have come to accept that I am quite vulnerable to the placebo effect and the power of suggestion. It is why I don't spend too much time in this forum!

  4. #4
    SlimIcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonne PHX View Post
    Ha! Indeed!! I, for one, have come to accept that I am quite vulnerable to the placebo effect and the power of suggestion. It is why I don't spend too much time in this forum!
    You will spend more time on this forum.

  5. #5
    zoebird's Avatar
    zoebird is offline Senior Member
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    yes, the common side effects of all vaccines are pretty much the same.

    there are some unusual and extreme side effects that our doctor had us look for when DS had his DTaP series (the only vaccine he's had so far), but otherwise he said not to worry about the minor ones that may occur. DS didn't have any side effects -- which i chalk up to breastfeeding. I chalk everything up to breastfeeding. LOL

    even so, i'm still delaying most vaccines for him -- and that is fairly common here anyway. I'm not sure what I will do next or when, but when we do decide to travel to india and/or africa, we'll put him on a course of getting several over a year, so that we can give them spread out a bit.

    we thought we would do india in 2012 for kumbha mela, but have decided that we cannot afford it yet.

  6. #6
    Yvonne PHX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimIcy View Post
    You will spend more time on this forum.
    Dammit! Here I am again.

  7. #7
    zoebird's Avatar
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    i'm not sure, too, why gardisil is particularly mentioned, but i find that my position on the matter is largely philosophical.

    first, HPV is preventable by behavior. A young woman having fewer than 2 or 3 partners in her lifetime is unlikely to get HPV.

    so, i believe that girls and young woman should have a choice as to whether or not they are at risk for it, and get the vaccine if they feel they will be.

    for me, it's not a moral issue as to whether or not a woman has 1 or 1,000 partners in her lifetime. But, i think it is unnecessary to get a vaccine for something when there is absolutely no risk.

    EG, I carry zero risk, having only had one partner in my lifetime. Thus, there is no need for me to have the vaccine to "prevent cancer." It doesn't prevent cancer, it helps protect against certain strains of HPV which occasionally cause cervical cancer. So, there's no need.

    Second, I believe that parents and children should dialogue about sex, sexuality, and sexual responsibility regarding pregnancy and birth control, sexually transmitted disease and prevention, and also sexual ethics and behaviors and their potential emotional, physical, social, and spiritual (if applicable) impacts.

    This, of course, would vary from family to family as what is weighed most important to least, but I believe that these issues should be openly discussed, particularly as a child reaches puberty and throughout the young adult years.

    The reasons for this is because it not only provides a healthy framework for the young person's sexual development, but facilitates them making healthy choices for themselves.

    Again, for me, this is not a moral issue about partners, and how many people should have, and whom, and when, and wherefore and what not. It's really just about setting up an open communication.

    This way, a young girl at 9 or 10 isn't burdened with the idea -- via the vaccine -- taht she is naturally and obviouslly going to behave in a way that puts her at risk for HPV, but a girl at 14 or 15 who decides to become sexually active and realizes that she may be at risk for the STD, among other things, will seek her parents and her care provider's advice about the vaccine, birth control, and other related sexual health issues. She may, likewise, be less afraid to seek help if something unusual happens to her, to get the necessary medical care, and so on.

    I think the same is true of boys in this situation, btw, as I do plan on educating my son on these issues as well. But I do think that girls hold a great deal of personal responsbility in these matters, and therefore the open dialogue must be put forth.

    Third, as I touched upon in the last section, I have a serious problem with one of the philosophical ideas about simply vaccinating every single girl out there from age 9 and up.

    The idea is that "all girls are going to be sexually active, and all girls who are sexually active are going to engage in risky sexual behavior that leads to STDs."

    I think that this idea sends a really negative message to girls about the way that they think, and the way that we expect them to think.

    To give an example, I had it out with one of my friends about this.

    Terrified that her now fertile daughter would not make good decisions for herself due to her "silliness," my friend put her on the depo shot. she did not tell her then 12 year old daughter what it was. she said it was simple her "three month vitamin shot." likewise, she had her daughter given gardisil when it became available.

    she simply assumes that her daughter is not capable of making a good decision.

    now, her daughter is a very, very "good girl." she was raised going to church (a more liberal one, sure) and was active in the youth group. the church has a strong pro-abstinance stance, one that the girl asserted she believed. She was also a straight A student and active in school activities and sports. She didn't have a boyfriend. She's a very smart girl. I met the girl when she was 14.

    Now, i know that some girls are sexually active at 14, and some of those girls are church-going, straight-A students who are active in school activities and sports. BUT, what I do know of these same girls is that they are smart about their sexual activity. They tend to have "long time" boyfriends before just having sex. They likewise tend to always double up their contraceptives. And, they tend to get medical care on their own through free clinics, if not just through their family doctor. They tend to be very pro-active about their decisions.

    I knwo that not all girls are like this -- many of my own friends were not as cautious in their boy-crazed days. but, the majority of us were -- seeking out birth control, looking for medical advice when needed, and so on. and, we relied on each other and our expert library skills to help us out (today, it would be internet skills).

    I chose not to have sex as a teen -- for a variety of positive and negative reasons -- and many of my friends knew this about me. They also knew that my family and I were a veritable repository of information on sex-related stuff and that we were all "trustworthy." we did not tell secrets, we kept confidences. we brought in parents or family members only when absolutely necessary, and we were also happy to mediate. So, we became a central hub for a lot of girls -- even girls with whom we were not friends -- to get information, to get help.

    all of this still exists -- i believe -- among peer groups.

    When i talked with my friend about how she was treating her daughter, and how appalled I was by it, she was incredulous, saying that you just can't trust teens.

    I don't see why not -- particularly those teens with whom you have a pretty decent relationship.

    And, she was open with her mom. She was clear about being pro-absinance until she was ready, and she was clear that when she was ready, she would get birth control. Little did she know that she was already on it.

    When she went to university, her mother had to confess. She came to her mother and asked to go on birth control because she didn't know if she would meet someone at university. She'd researched her options, and she wanted to go on the nuva ring. she likewise decided to NOT get gardisil because she felt that she wouldn't be at risk, and if she felt she would be, then she would get it.

    Her mother had to tell her that she'd been on birth control since she was 12, and that she'd already had gardisil.

    how do you think that affected their relationship? how do you think the young woman felt about how her mother felt about her and her ability to make good decisions?

    I personally, think it sucks. And i think it's wrong. She didn't have a choice over her body, even though she was making *excellent* decisions for herself.

    She talked to her doctor, who switched her to the nuvaring, and she ultimately switched doctors because she felt she could not trust that doctor since she (the doctor) never informed the young women of the fact that she had been on birth control for 6 years at this point! And, she was curious as to how this would affect her fertility, but at this point, isn't terribly concerned about it because her new doctor says it should be ok.

    The relationship with her mother is still strained -- she doesn't feel that she can trust her mother, nor does she feel that her mother actually likes or believes in her. She doesn't do anything destructive, btu she doesn't tell her mother about her successes either.

    Her mother's decision to make these decisions without telling her daughter injured their relaitonship, all because of her mother's fears about decisions that her daughter MIGHT make.

    I know that parents do know their children best, but I think that I would rather talk to my children about these issues -- and about whether or not they want to utilize this, that, or the other in their health care -- as opposed to simply doing it, and having to "confess" later on.

    My friend always believed that her daughter would see that she was "doing it for her best interest!" but her daughter doesn't see that. What her daughter sees is that her mother doesn't trust or believe in her, so why should she trust in or believe in her mother? why should she share her hard earned successes?

    In her second year in university now (i think), she's paying her own way entirely -- working full time and going full time -- and she's basically completely independent of her family. She's a very capable girl -- but this really upset her. And i think it will take a lot more work to repair than people think.

    I think that -- in the end -- when the realities of this vaccine, what i consider the philosophical realities as well as the physical ones -- finally come to light, a lot of young women will be asking their parents "WTF did you think I was such an idiot? that i wouldn't make good decisions? that i'm incapable of doing so?"

    And to me, that's a lot ot answer to.

  8. #8
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    hmm, mental retardation is not listed there....

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