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  1. #41
    Cryptocode's Avatar
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    In Jesus' time, in Jerusalem, the wheat was emmer wheat, except for the essenes who ate einkorn wheat. Bread made from these early wheats can still be ordered online. Or the flour, or the wheat can be ordered online. If your mother wants to really follow the Bible she'd have to do this.

    Otherwise, today's bread is nothing like what God was talking about.
    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

  2. #42
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    I have a dairy-allergic AND celiac daughter. The Bible can talk about wheat all it likes, but that stuff will slowly kill my kid, and I will not give it to her. I do not believe the Lord intends us to leave wholly leave our brains at the front door of the chapel.

    Perhaps if you asked your mom what she would do if she were actually formally diagnosed with celiac disease, that would put a crack in her thought processes. If you are to be an effective servant, then you need to be healthy.
    I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

  3. #43
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    EagleRiverDee is offline Senior Member
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    I'm Christian. My boss is Christian. When I went primal, the fact that they eat grains in the Bible were her primary reason for objecting to my diet. However, she's gluten intolerant and therefore had to give up grains herself. So apparently it's ok if it's for your health due to a food allergy, but not ok if it's for your health just because it's healthier.

    Primarily I would point out that the grains back then weren't all GMO frankenfoods, and the bread pretty much had three ingredients. What is eaten today doesn't bear a lot of resemblance to biblical eating.
    High Weight: 225
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  4. #44
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    the bible is full of contradictions because the authors and compilers didn't write it to be taken as verbatim instructions on how to live? that they provided tales of ethics, morality and faith.

    then again, if somebody truly "believes" the earth is only 6000 years old and dinosaur fossils are a test of faith rather than proof of pre-historic life, dunno how you can reason with that.

    i know this is an old thread, but this kind of shiyat drives me nutz with its utter irrationality. even the highly unreasonable, intolerant, misogynist catholic church (of which i am a collapsed member) doesn't deny science.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  5. #45
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    I am a Primal Christian also, and this thread makes me very happy. Mostly because so many of us have come to the same conclusions. :-)

    But in response to the original question, my mom also raised the same objections as your mom, and after (half-jokingly) suggesting that perhaps agriculture was actually punishment for the original sin, I approached explaining my "lifestyle choice" from a different angle... for me, I found the primal lifestyle after searching for a way to heal chronic inflammation and a serious sugar addiction. Spiritually AND physically, I was not ok with being addicted to sweets. It is not difficult to convince a xtian that addictive behavior is not good. It is also easy to show anyone and everyone how a primal lifestyle literally heals sugar addictions and the obesity/chronic inflammation that results. So that's the angle I went from with my mom. So far, so good. She's not primal yet herself, but she understands and supports why I am. And it's awfully hard to argue with results.

    No one at church understands why I don't eat fruit, though... I jokingly tell them that if fruit led to the fall of man, and grains resulted from the fall, then seriously!? No wonder so many xtians are obese! What cracks me up is hearing anti-idolatry sermons and then following those up with a good old-fashioned church potluck loaded with the finest baked goods one could ever imagine (no one bakes like church ladies!) where the "healthiest" thing on the table is fruit salad generously dosed with several tablespoons of refined sugar... it's like preaching against alcoholism and then serving everyone their own personal 5th for the sake of "fellowship." Oh, the irony!

  6. #46
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    Biblically speaking? Bread (agriculture) was part of the punishment for betraying God.
    Previously, we lived in continual bounty:
    1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
    our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of
    the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,
    and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
    creepeth upon the earth.

    1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be
    fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue
    it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the
    fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth
    upon the earth
    .

    1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb
    bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and
    every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;
    to you it shall be for meat.


    But, once cast from Eden, we were forced to grow our own food. This food is sub-optimal, but that was part of the punishment for disregarding God's word.
    3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened
    unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of
    which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:
    cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat
    of it all the days of thy life;

    3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou
    return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for
    dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    As we were redeemed by Christ, we needn't suffer the limitations imposed on our ancestors. So bread was never good and is no longer required.

    All quotes from Genesis, King James' Bible.
    Last edited by Kochin; 07-29-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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  7. #47
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    Most baked goods available today comes ultimately from grains concieved in a laboratory at Monsanto or some similar conglomerate. I would practically guarantee that our Lord and Saviour didn't partake of such fare. Even if He did have such shtuff, He is perfect, not subject to "sensitivities" or IBS, like I am. No grains (especially wheat) for me, fallen creature that I am.

  8. #48
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    Incidentally...

    I am a young earth, literal view of Genesis Christian, because if God is not powerful enough to have made the earth and mankind exactly as He states in His Word, how is He powerful enough to save us from our sin?? I take the Word of God literally unless it is clear within the context that is is metaphorical.

    It is interesting that apart from being commanded not to eat of the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life, the only other time God gives a general command about food (apart from laws given to the Israelites regarding clean/unclean foods) is after the flood, when God instructs Noah that mankind must eat meat. Undoubtedly due to the change in environment since the "flood" which was more like a world-wide cataclysm, resulted because the fountains of the deep opened, and probably a firmament of water which had surrounded the earth was destroyed and the earth had less protection from the sun. (The earth also probably shifted 20 degrees on its axis). We certainly live in a less than perfect environment, and one far harsher than pre-flood days, but it is possible to maximise one's health by experimenting with what is good and what is not good for your own body.

    I would also very much affirm what others have said, that the grains in Biblical times are very different nutritionally than what we have available today. It is amusing to me when Paleo/Primal authors wax eloquent about what we have evolved to eat, then throw in "our body's are not designed to deal with...." They were designed, and sadly our bodies are not what they were meant to be. Hope you are able to help your mother see that just because a certain staple food was the cultural norm of Biblical times does not mean we must eat even those same ancestral grains, and even less so modern ones.

  9. #49
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    I wonder also whether the ancients actually prepared their grains in ways which rendered them more nutritious. Soaking, sprouting, fermenting etc. I have plenty of other foods to eat so I don't choose to go to all that trouble, but some folks do and perhaps they thrive. In which case it's not just a matter of whether to eat grains, but how.

  10. #50
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    BZM
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    Thanks, kochin. Well said. I have a friend who didn't get past the first three verses you quote, so refuses to change his diet on religious grounds. Now maybe I can point him at this...
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    Don't judge men's wealth or godliness by their Sunday appearance. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)

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