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Thread: Chronic Cardio vs Born to Run page 2

  1. #11
    hitek79's Avatar
    hitek79 is offline Junior Member
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    Good replies here guys, thanks!

    I personally hate running. I run from fires and bears, but that's it. I do love my bike though, and living in Colorado and weighing in about 190lbs, it's almost impossible to not ride above 75% of max for extended amounts of time in the mountains. I don't do it every day, but thru summer I do one big ride per weekend usually, so this is a topic that I'm interested in learning more about.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticman View Post
    BTW, something interesting? The Tarahumara Nation suffers little or no heart disease, cancer or Type 2 diabetes. Now, isn't that contradictory to what low carb pundits are stating? However, some of the leading advocates of diet to reverse heart disease (and halt cancer, Type 2 diabetes) continue to recommend diets similar to the Tarahumara:

    "A similar example in North America are the Tarahumara Indians thriving in the mountains and canyons of northern Mexico. They consume a spartan food plan of squash, beans and corn. Cardiovascular disease is absent and their strength and stamina are legendary. When carefully studied by Dr. William Connor, they are free of any vitamin, mineral, or nutritional deficiencies. Cardiovascular disease is also missing in Central Africa except in the Masai who as herdsmen live on milk, blood and meat. "

    ABOUT DR. ESSELSTYN

    Dr. Esselstyn was recently on CNN's "The Last Heart Attack" citing clinical evidence re the reversal of heart disease.

    (Quick note: I've mentioned this in other discussions and people say 'they run it off.' Run what off? Marathoners drop dead at "races" here in the US regularly. Of course, US marathoners lives on Power Bars and pasta--not what the Tarahumra subside on.)
    1. Those foods are minimally processed, and not genetically modified.
    2. Those three foods combined have a full set of protein... something something something... Those are the magic three plants that go together for sustenance. Something about the proteins in them, but I'm too lazy to look it up right now.
    3. I think it's been pretty well shown that people can thrive on a very wide variety of foods. Corn is the only obviously non-primal item there, as beans are in the gray area and squash is heartily approved.

    The "running it off" is a balance between carbohydrate intake and insulin levels. Running that many miles will deplete your muscle glycogen and require you to intake far more carbs than an average American. I'm not sure what causes death among the marathoners that you reference.

    I find it interesting that the Masai and Tarahumara have similar life expectancies, plus or minus a bit.

    Finally, being exceedingly good at ultramarathons does not necessarily mean that these people are as healthy as they could be.
    Last edited by jfreaksho; 09-20-2011 at 10:44 PM.

  3. #13
    Weweretoldalie's Avatar
    Weweretoldalie is offline Junior Member
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    Good info here!

  4. #14
    CMHFFEMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticman View Post
    BTW, something interesting? The Tarahumara Nation suffers little or no heart disease, cancer or Type 2 diabetes. Now, isn't that contradictory to what low carb pundits are stating? However, some of the leading advocates of diet to reverse heart disease (and halt cancer, Type 2 diabetes) continue to recommend diets similar to the Tarahumara:

    "A similar example in North America are the Tarahumara Indians thriving in the mountains and canyons of northern Mexico. They consume a spartan food plan of squash, beans and corn. Cardiovascular disease is absent and their strength and stamina are legendary. When carefully studied by Dr. William Connor, they are free of any vitamin, mineral, or nutritional deficiencies. Cardiovascular disease is also missing in Central Africa except in the Masai who as herdsmen live on milk, blood and meat. "

    ABOUT DR. ESSELSTYN

    Dr. Esselstyn was recently on CNN's "The Last Heart Attack" citing clinical evidence re the reversal of heart disease.

    (Quick note: I've mentioned this in other discussions and people say 'they run it off.' Run what off? Marathoners drop dead at "races" here in the US regularly. Of course, US marathoners lives on Power Bars and pasta--not what the Tarahumra subside on.)
    On top of what Jfreak said she stated that the Masai have a high incidence of heart disease and they don't. If you google it all you see is that they don't have heart disease and its another paradox. Also on the website it blames heart disease on the introduction of animal products ignoring confounding factors such as refined carbohydrates and industrial seed oil. That being said it doesn't shock me that you can reverse heart disease on a plant based diet. I also bet you can do just as well (or better) on a paleo diet.

    As far as the carb thing goes I think that its when you introduce things like refined carbs, industrial seed oils and grains is when it matters.

  5. #15
    tfarny's Avatar
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    Common denominators among "traditional" peoples = no refined sugar, no flour, no seed oils, no working themselves to death. Show me the healthy traditional society that eats a ton of sugar or a ton of bread.
    Traits that traditional peoples differ widely on while being healthy = level of meat / fish consumption (all consume it when possible though), type and amount of activity level, amount of non-processed carbs, fat consumption.

    In other words, it ain't the running or the carbs, or the meat, it's the powdered foods. Simple enough.
    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

  6. #16
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    pcg
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    tfarny: +10!

  7. #17
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    I think you are missing the point of Mark and Chris's books. The human body has evolved in a certain (barefoot ) way to be efficient at moving (climbing, running, sprinting, etc. ) over thousands of years. Try to see what each book is doing right, and then decide for yourself which course of action you want to take.

    Try to see the parallels of both books, the barefoot training, the idea to looking to the past to solve the problems of today. Can you be just like a Rarámuri native that has lived from childhood a lifestyle of proper running/movement mechanics? Maybe; but many of us do not have the time to simply re-learn the fundamentals of running and movement mechanics. If you've read both books, I hope you now view shoes much differently (and perhaps negatively).

    Both books advocate moderation, natural/unprocessed foods, and stress management. Why were the Raramuri such good runners? They loved it. We can't overlook stress and elation in the equation for good health.

    So go smile, move, run, and enjoy life on a regular basis

  8. #18
    Andtckrtoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMHFFEMT View Post
    As far as the carb thing goes I think that its when you introduce things like refined carbs, industrial seed oils and grains is when it matters.
    Bingo - I agree with this, which is why I'm not as "strict" as some here, although I do treat them as the 20%. I think skipping the processing and refined stuff called food is the most important thing. I was watching a news show about people not reading labels. I thought about it, and realized I don't read labels either as what I buy do not have labels and have one ingredient - the food itself.
    Christine
    Wag more, bark less

  9. #19
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    I'm almost done reading Born to Run, and I have to say that although the athletics are inspiring, the dietary choices are not. Pizza? Carb gels? Mountain Dew? Veganism? Surely these are not the true breakfasts of champions. Or are they?!

    I also have to say that as much as I was a Barefoot Ted fanboy before, I am now seriously considering building a shrine to him. The rickshaw thing is off the hook. To think that Ted will be at PrimalCon 2012, how could anyone not go?

  10. #20
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    interesting discussion.
    I just read an article stating Tour de france veterans live live on average about 8 years longer the the general population.
    Marathon runners in the US are often not trained sufficiently and push themselves too hard when they do race. If you look at the stats actually very few marathoners die.
    Re Masai and tarahumari longevity. Yes it is similiar but Masai seldon live past 60 and tarahumara often make in into 80's. The reason for the same life expectancy(which is a median) is that the tarahumara have a much higher early childhood death rate(apparently almost 1/2 of children die before age 6). If you look at life expectancy of 20 year olds the tarahumara are much likely to live longer the the masai. At least according to some articles I have read - I don't recall the source.
    I have also heard the Masai have heavy fatty streaks in their arteries (recorded in autopsies)but because their arteries are 2X the normal size they don't exhibit any signs of heart disease. The large arteries are due to the fact they walk 18 to 25 KM a day while herding cattle.
    Last edited by twa2w; 10-29-2011 at 11:01 PM.

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