I love Gary Taubes but he scares me on one thing. page 3

[JKC]

Would Taubes say that, though? My understanding is that Taubes thinks it's best to always be LC or VLC.

Although I totally agree that boosting leptin through carb re-feeds seems like it would be a great way to reach a new bodyfat set-point, I'm just not sure at what 'scale' (i.e. how much excess fat you have) you can start implementing them successfully.

From what I have seen, they are prolly good when you are down to your last 20 lbs or so.

[JoPaleo]

nah, with the right diet, exercise, sleep and a few other factors, you can lose more.

[Paleobird]

Change the "set point" in your head and you can change the "set point" of your body. Saying, "Well this must be my body's set point because I have to try harder to lose weight" is, IMHO, just another way of rationalizing giving up and settling. It's a cost/benefit analysis that only you can decide. The first pounds are easy and it gets harder as you go. You decide where to stop. It's not pre-determined like some kind of fate.

BTW, Taubes has some very valid points to make about carbs, not fat being the root cause of out health problems, etc. But he is not a god. And he is not even really Primal. Don't get too wrapped up in his every word.

[iniQuity]

Can I butt in and ask what you'd do if you needed to eat as starch free as possible?

That, I'm not really sure. That's why I threw in the "no metabolic derangement" tidbit. Is it possible for you to eat carbier vegetables? like maybe a lot of carrots and cauliflower or something like that? If not, then maybe I'd watch the fat intake somewhat? I'm just shooting from the hip on this to be honest, but maybe two days out of the week you could eat lower in fat and the rest more normally.

In other words, eat less sometimes, not chronically, and see what happens.

[Adrianag]

Hi,

I was 300 lbs before going Primal and now I am 260. I haven't been 260 since high school and I am very excited about my progress. I've been stalled for a while now and Gary Taubes has me a little concerned. I know I will eventually go past 260 and feel better but it was something Mr. Taubes said in his book and again at his speech at Google that has me spooked.

Mr. Taubes says that certain people are going to be a certain weight no matter what. Mr. Taubes follows his own advice (he claims) and while he looks fit to me, a lot of people question him about his weight. He said he is 6'2" and 220 lbs. He says that he will always be 220 lbs and won't be like his brother (who is much leaner and athletic).

So my question to you all is... Do we have set points that cannot be reset. Will I stop at a certain weight and not be able to get past it, even if I still am fat? He says that research shows that if you are a 300 lbs man (like I was) you generally are not going to be lean. You can be healthier and extend your life by having a good blood profile but you won't be aesthetically where you want to be.

I'm not going to lie. I want to be lean not just healthy. Call me selfish but I was to be desired just as much as anyone. I will always be thankful for my improved health but can we go to the next step and improve aesthetically?


Thank you for reading.

Have you seen Dr. Jack Kruse's before and after pictures? - Jack Kruse
Yes, it can be done. Follow Dr. K's advice regarding leptin resistance, which Taubes has not addressed in his writings.

[iniQuity]

BTW, Taubes has some very valid points to make about carbs, not fat being the root cause of out health problems, etc. But he is not a god. And he is not even really Primal. Don't get too wrapped up in his every word.

This is important, Taubes diet recommendations at the end of WWGF if I recall right, were pretty atrocious.

I'm reading Primal Body Primal Mind right now, just started, seems like the author would rather you spare the consumption of starchy carbs as well, but hasn't gotten into the meat of why yet. Though it's pretty clear she prefers folks be in ketosis. Personally, I enjoy starch too much. Maybe when I'm older I'll see if they affect my body negatively. In other words, if I can't continue to eat the way I eat now due to fat gain then I'll adjust but that's further down the road for me.

[jammies]

I agree with many here - set points exist, but they are not set in stone. I am at a set-point right now - I am no longer overweight, eat as much as I want, and don't exercise much other than walking every day but I could still stand to lose ten pounds of fat I think. Like Paleobird suggested- it is a matter of doing the cost benefit analysis to determine a) if it is worth the extra effort/discipline to have the lean look b) will these sacrifices be sustainable long term.

I have no doubt I could limit intake a bit or bump up exercise and break this setpoint. But humans have a finite reserve of willpower to draw on. If you are using willpower to control intake then I consider it a "diet" and therefore not sustainable long term....at least for me.

[Paleobird]

But the interesting thing I've been finding about my new lower weight is that, while it did require some will power to get here, maintaining here is really easy. It's like I just had to convince my body that this is the new set-point, not the old weight. Now, it seems perfectly happy to stay here. I think the typical yo-yo diet rebounding is only for those who are still carb burners.

[spakesneaker]

But the interesting thing I've been finding about my new lower weight is that, while it did require some will power to get here, maintaining here is really easy. It's like I just had to convince my body that this is the new set-point, not the old weight. Now, it seems perfectly happy to stay here. I think the typical yo-yo diet rebounding is only for those who are still carb burners.

This is kind of a tangent, but I'm curious Paleobird - how does the maintenance phase differ from losing for you? Do you still track or keep the same macros/calories or eat the same stuff?

[Paleobird]

This is kind of a tangent, but I'm curious Paleobird - how does the maintenance phase differ from losing for you? Do you still track or keep the same macros/calories or eat the same stuff?

I'm not counting anymore but I think I got a pretty good idea of portions and macros from the time I did count so things are not that different. I just allow myself some nice things now like cooking with butter instead of cooking spray. Also a bit more carbs in the form of fruit. Counting and measuring doesn't have to be forever. I do monitor my weight and , if it starts to go up again, I can start counting again but, so far, it seems to be holding steady at 150 +/- 1-2 lbs.

I really do feel like my satiety signals have finally gotten straightened out so that I know when to stop eating more intuitively. I'm not sure how much of that to credit to Dr. K and how much to just getting to a healthy weight.