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  1. #1
    Sanctus Real's Avatar
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    Sugar snap peas?

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    I was eating some sugar snap peas for dinner tonight, when a horrible thought occurred to me. Are they legumes? I love the taste of fresh sugar snap peas, I eat them at least once a week. So, I Binged them after dinner, and I found one site that said they were. Most sites listing common legumes didn't include them, though. Wikipedia calls them a legume, too.

    I searched them on MDA, found a link to a recipe that includes them, so I'm not sure what my Paleo/Primal gurus would say. Are they okay to eat occasionally, or do you think they can be included in in your diet as often as a meal a week?
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    technically peas are, yes, a legume but I think the veggie versions like sugar snaps and green beans are okay because you are eating the pod more than you are the actual pea or bean. I myself eat them and I don't worry about it

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    Fresh beans are fine per Mark. Also, Don Matesz has a post where he talks about chimpanzees, our closest living kin, eating lots of legumes. More
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    It's one of those grey areas. Soy has been abused into the root of all processed food and has become the poster child of the Big Ag Age along with corn IMHO, so it can be bad. But natural sources should not be so bad. Now many people may be sensitive to them and not know it. And for me, if I binge on something, I might actually be sensitive to it in a bad way and need to give it up, even if just for a month or so to see what's what.

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    J. Stanton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedonist View Post
    Fresh beans are fine per Mark. Also, Don Matesz has a post where he talks about chimpanzees, our closest living kin, eating lots of legumes. More
    Unfortunately for Don, there is strong stable isotope evidence that by the time of Australopithecus afarensis, we were eating meat:
    Isotopic Evidence for the Diet of an Early Hominid, Australopithecus africanus

    "Stable carbon isotope analysis of A. africanus from Makapansgat Limeworks, South Africa, demonstrates that this early hominid ate not only fruits and leaves but also large quantities of carbon-13–enriched foods such as grasses and sedges or animals that ate these plants, or both. The results suggest that early hominids regularly exploited relatively open environments such as woodlands or grasslands for food. They may also suggest that hominids consumed high-quality animal foods before the development of stone tools and the origin of the genus Homo."

    This is the problem with stable isotope evidence: something could be eating grasses -- or eating the animals that ate grasses.

    And let's not even get into the stable isotope evidence once we left Africa, which shows our dietary protein sources to be completely meat and fish-based.

    Don's very good at cherry-picking one data point (oh, look! I found one population of modern chimpanzees that eats some quantity of legumes) and spinning a long, involved story based on it. His stories sound nice, but as a result, they're very likely to be baloney.

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    @ J.Stanton: Don certainly doesn't suggest that our ancestors were vegetarian. And I don't agree that they were as plant-based as he thinks. But I don't see any reason to think we ever gave up eating fresh legumes. Bushmen eat them now.

    by the time of Australopithecus afarensis, we were eating meat
    Chimpanzees eat meat. No doubt our common ancestor ate meat.

    And let's not even get into the stable isotope evidence once we left Africa, which shows our dietary protein sources to be completely meat and fish-based.
    No, lets not get into that because all it proves is that we can be carnivorous or nearly so.

    I found one population of modern chimpanzees . . . .
    He doesn't say that. He says that modern chimps eat legumes, and gives one example. But if one pop. eats lots of legumes, the implication is that legumes are healthy for chimps. One would have to do further research to prove it.

    None of this changes the fact that Mark says fresh legumes are fine.
    Last edited by Hedonist; 09-01-2011 at 08:22 PM.
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    sugar snap peas are fine since they are more pod than bean. It's in the Primal Blueprint book
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    Sanctus Real's Avatar
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    I'm re-reading the book now, that's what got me on guard against legumes that might have creeped into my diet. But, good that they're okay. I was hating the thought of having to give them up!
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    K.I.S.S.

    If you can eat it raw, it's food.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedonist View Post
    He doesn't say that. He says that modern chimps eat legumes, and gives one example. But if one pop. eats lots of legumes, the implication is that legumes are healthy for chimps. One would have to do further research to prove it.
    And then he goes off on a long tangent about how since one isolated population of chimps eats legumes, all ancestral humans DEFINITELY ate legumes, and they DEFINITELY changed our hormone levels, so we're now DEFINITELY over-testosteroned because of our lack of these putative legumes in our diet.

    (Meanwhile, he completely ignores the fact that soybeans are Asian, weren't domesticated until a few thousand years ago, and weren't known outside China until a few centuries ago. Is he eating ancestral African legumes? What is their nutritional and antinutritional makeup? Best not to ask such awkward questions.)

    In other words, he's spun a big, long, self-serving story out of no evidence in order to validate his own personal preferences. I have no problem with Don eating whatever the hell he wants -- but he can't just stop there. He has to explain why what he eats is the best thing for EVERYONE to eat, always, without exception...

    ...and he's willing to pass off baseless speculation as fact in order to do it.

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