Primal With A Side Of FABULOUS page 48

[phreebie]

Anything from a 1/2 pound gain to a two pound loss a week, depending on what I've been eating/doing. A pound a day? Pssshaw!

[beachrat]

A pound a day is bonkers. A faster rate is normal when you shock your system, and plateaus are normal as your internal systems catch up and adjust to your changed behaviors. The "miracle" of primal is that it's a way of life that's easy to do once you get in the groove, so you can do it forever. The overhaul takes time, but then again there's an awful lot of repair and adjustment going on, besides the fat loss. Finding ways to goose your way down faster probably just means added stress and longer yo-yos and plateaus at other points.

I lost, oh, 30 pounds in the first 4 months, another 10 in the next couple of months, 5 in the next five (extremely stressful) months, and about 5 in the last month. I'm only now getting into strength training a bit more seriously (with occasional -- very occasional -- sprints). It would be easy to attack weight loss with more fanaticism than I've been doing, but personally I try to stay firmly focused on the enjoy life (and get good sleep) sides of the equation. So I'm not dissatisfied, much as I might like the idea of magical transformation. Longer lasting is more important than faster.

[namelesswonder]

Panda, please do not forget that such blog entries as you have read are geared towards the average Cheeto-eating American who needs to know when to PUT DOWN THE CANDY in the name of health. Like others have said, it takes time and you have to find the right plan for you (right combination of exercise & food, generally speaking). Those blog entries are meant to entice outsiders and make the rest of us feel badly. It isn't realistic and it isn't healthy for us to end up feeling like we're a failure, just like so many CW diets have before. Don't lose hope! Remember that this is all a grand experiment

[Gay Panda]

Those blog entries are meant to entice outsiders and make the rest of us feel badly. It isn't realistic and it isn't healthy for us to end up feeling like we're a failure, just like so many CW diets have before. Don't lose hope! Remember that this is all a grand experiment

I'm not losing hope, don't worry! I'm just frustrated. That blog entry of his reminded me so much of the cover of The New Atkins For A New You, in which there is a medal at the lower right saying "How Would You Like to LOSE up to 15 POUNDS in 2 WEEKS!" I almost threw the book. To use as a sell-point something based on the results of such a tiny minority . . . I mean, really, how many of us could lose 15 pounds in 2 weeks short of catastrophic illness or amputation? It promotes this sense of Magic, which we all want to believe in, but I would rather it promoted Reality. Yes, it's not as exciting, and it's probably not as good for the bottom line.

I would never take seriously a medal saying "How Would You Like A PERFECT SCORE on Your SAT?" or "How Would You Like to MAKE a MILLION DOLLARS in 1 Day?" But weight is such a sensitive topic in comparison, stinging really, that we let ourselves dream in a way that we wouldn't with our SAT scores. We have much more invested emotionally in our body image, and dietary gurus take advantage of that. So to claim that tons of patients are losing a pound a day, inexplicably, magically, was like a kick in my doughy belly. Especially because it came when my body is on a pause. Pauses happen, I had a long one through August, and when pauses drag on it's hard not to wish for a little magic.

[Gay Panda]

Oh, and thank you to those who sent in their rates of loss!!! I will write more about that later.

Anyone else willing to share? How fast/slow do you lose?

[lucyh]

Anyone else willing to share? How fast/slow do you lose?

I've lost about 27 pounds in six months. Do I have to do the math? Okay, just a minute...that is somewhere between 1 and 1.5 pounds a week. It feels so.very.slow. I also notice, however, that it is not a very linear process. I check my weight every morning, just for reference. It will stay exactly the same for days and days, or maybe bounce around a little within a two pound range, and then it will just whoosh away-it will steadily go down a pound a day for three days in a row. I've also noticed lately that my body is changing even when the scale decides not to move. I am suddenly a size smaller, and all those skinny jeans I bought last month are now ridiculously baggy. I'm not sure skinny jeans held up with a belt are exactly a new trend, no matter how desperately I try to make it a fashion statement.
For reference, I am 6' tall, and have gone from 261 (approximately, I think, I didn't weigh myself for a few weeks because I didn't want to know just how fat I was, it could have been even higher) to 234, and from an 18W-20W to a regular person 16. Writing that down gives me happy faces on my feelings chart. My original goal was to be a size 14, but now I think I'm going to aim for 12s.

[sixpack-rc]

UPDATE: (in explanation of *, **, and ***)

* Oh, I misunderstood the term? I know. This is tongue-in-cheek. ☺

** Obviously, this does not apply to our friend Roger.

*** For those of you with a minute to spare, would you take part in a completely scientific study on Primal With A Side Of FABULOUS? I am curious to know at what rate you are losing weight. Are you part of the Revered One Pound A Day Club? Or are you standing forlornly outside the door like Gay Panda, averaging one a week? Maybe you’re losing even more slowly than that, or not at all like Lady Friend (which is why she’s doing Atkins Induction now). How alike or how different are we?

Dearest Panda,

I have lost about a pound a day on three occasions. The first was when I showed up for ski practice after a summer of having too much fun 20 lbs overweight. The coach took me to the grocery store and put me on a high carb, low fat diet with lots of veg + three hours a day of cardio. I did ski practice for two hours and then every night had to run for at least an hour. Generally this was to run up and down the stairs of each aisle of our stadium at CU boulder. I lost the 20 lbs in about 14 days. The key to this was working out past the point where my glycogen stores were depleted. That really seemed to work but I was 19 and went from 185-165. I don't think that's a realistic approach for a 44 y.o. 250 lb man.

The second was when I had been laid off and did basically the PB by mistake. I lost 30 lbs in 30 days going from 230 - 199. In addition to skipping anything white I was spending about 5-6 hours a day at the golf course, playing 27-36 holes of golf most days and walking/carrying my clubs. I'll go into this more in a minute.

The first two weeks on PB I lost 15-16 lbs. Now I am at 25 lbs lost for six weeks. I had a 10 day plateau of no weight loss and then another two weeks of 5/lbs per week. I don't have a problem ramping it back up to 5-7 lbs a week but most weeks it's about 2-3. I am actually slowing it down a little this time because I'm changing my life along the way and I'm not really in a hurry. Plus I am experimenting a little to see what makes me feel best.

I went back to my notes from the time when I lost 30 lbs in 30 days when I started PB and saw how closely what I was doing then (2002) resembles Mark's PB plan. I have incorporated those things into my PB plan and I'll show you how they relate as well.

This is what worked for me: (Obviously everyone is different)
1) Ate nothing white. No chips, no fries, no potatoes, no rice, no bread and no bananas. I didn't start out to be low carb but I decided to avoid processed foods. And someone told me bananas had a lot of calories so I cut them out too. I noticed if I ate anything on that list, the scale didn't move the next day. I didn't eat beans because I didn't like them. Like I said, happy accident.

2) Lots of long (slow twitch) movement. I played golf every day. Usually walked and carried 27-36 holes. In addition, I was doing a lot of outdoor photography so when I wasn't on the golf course I was hiking or playing around outside.

3) I was ostensibly doing the Body For Life program, so I did HIIT three days a week. This consisted of alternating between walking, jogging and sprinting for 1 minute intervals as long as I could. I would do that 'out' (away from home) and then walk back when I was tired. I think the walking tired important too.

4) I lifted heavy things twice a week. I went to the gym and did the major lifts. Curls, bench press, situps, squats and some flexibility things related to golf.

5) Kept bacon in the house. I was eating low fat and low carb. I figured out that bacon was satisfying for relatively little calories. If I craved pizza or potato chips, for example, I would tell myself to just go ahead and have some bacon and if I still wanted it, I could have it. Then I would eat the bacon and wouldn't really need the other thing. So 2 or 4 slices of bacon at 80/160 calories vs. a bag of chips or pizza at 1000+ calories.

6) No calories from liquid and processed food. The problem with those calories is that they don't 'count' towards making our bodies feel full. Eating 2000 calories of pizza is pretty easy, eating 2000 calories of chicken breast + broccoli = Hard. So basically I only drank water. No soda, alchohol or anything else.

7) I didn't eat or drink anything until the scale moved. (most days). I was between jobs so I had the luxury of doing this. Basically, if I weighed 218 the previous day, I wouldn't eat or drink anything until the scale said 217. Some days (like after a binge) you just know it's not getting there so don't worry about it those days. Basically this enforced IF. Generally I didn't eat until around noon and I tried to eat dinner relatively early.

With the PB. The key for me going to fast weight seems to be:
1) Lots of slow twitch movement. i.e. golf or walking for hours at a time.
2) I haven't done any HIIT or LHT yet. I'm waiting for my body to feel ready and it almost does. I have done a lot of damage the last 6 years.
3) Only whole meats/eggs + veggies and 1 piece of fruit per day. Butter, olive oil, coconut oil, etc... are fine to cook with. Lots of veggies.
4) No fake things. So no almond flour brownies, egg+baking soda bread or cheap starches like potatoes and bananas. No diet soda and no alcohol. Basically nothing that feels, tastes or looks like something that is non-primal.
5) No eating out. Eating out seems to really affect me negatively. I don't know if I eat more than I should or if there are additional things in there, but eating out tends to stall me for 1-2 days at least.

When I do those things, the weight starts falling off again. When I don't, then my weight loss is closer to 1-2 lbs per week. Sometimes it stalls even though I'm still at a calorie deficit.

Also, I tend to alternate between these modes. I'll eat a more loosely and maybe cheat a little more with some diet soda or red wine etc for a week...then my weight loss stalls and then I go clean and drop 5 lbs in the next 4-5 days and then slow it up a little again. So it could be that my cycling has something to do with getting my body ready to drop again too. I don't know.

I really enjoy your blog and though I'm not posting too much, I do check in every day.

~rc

[Gay Panda]

It is very hard to concentrate on writing when Poo Hurler has been unleashing her maniacal laugh for the last hour. Sigh. It is raining here on and off today, and the cat turds she heaves into the street are floating past my house.

[Gay Panda]

PART ONE: In looking over the results that you lovely people left, I wonder how it is that this doctor sees a one pound a day loss in so many, when the replies to this completely scientific study show that it is not the typical response.

1. Eating strictly, Gay Panda loses on average one pound a week. However, I had a three-week pause in August where nothing happened, and right now I am in the midst of another.

2. newlifejourney loses on average one pound a week, and has to be strict to make this happen.

3. Dickzark, who called me Panada and made me laugh because I am not a Canada-sized panda, can lose one pound a day! However, this does not apply to his outer fat, which is stubborn and requires much more exercise and strict eating to lose.

4. Mrs. Pork is having the frustrating experience of having nothing shift since March! This is despite eating very strictly, and reminds me of Lady Friend. Both of them, however, report feeling better.

5. Lady Friend, who did not write in to my secret journal but we will pretend that she did, ate pretty strictly from mid-April to mid-September, and saw very little response. Cutting out wheat helped her to shuck water weight and about three pounds of fat, and then everything ground to a halt. Moving to Atkins Induction on September 18th, she has dropped nine pounds before hitting the typical third week slowdown.

6. BeckaSki is losing about two pounds a week, coming off consistently with primal.

7. ItinerantChild is very strict and loses about one pound a week, and believes the rate of loss would increase if not for the sultry call of booze.

8. PixieKitten can’t gain muscle, and imagines doing nasty things with innocent Cadbury Eggs.

9. Phreebie is all over the board! But still, NOT a pound a day – each week consists of anything from a half-pound gain to a two-pound loss.

10. Beachrat made me do math. (Damn you, beachrat!) Losing 30 pounds in 4 months (which we will call 17 weeks) means a loss of 1.76 pounds on average a week. There was more weight loss after this, but Gay Panda only uses a calculator once a day.

11. Namelesswonder makes the good point that one-pound-a-day claims are to entice outsiders. I find this disingenuous (of the doctor, not namelesswonder). I was brought up to trust doctors. When a doctor says that the typical response in his patients is one pound a day, my impulse is to believe it. But how is that possible? Does he only treat 600-pound men? So this claim may just be advertising, and I pity men who don’t lose this way, (and I’ve NEVER met a woman who loses that rapidly), who think that something is wrong with them because they don’t meet this expectation.

12. Lucyh, somehow suspecting that I have hit my calculation quota of the day, did the math for me and is losing between one and one-and-a-half pounds a week.

13. Sixpack-rc has a history of very fast weight loss. This post really exemplified the difference in how two bodies respond to the same stimulus. Just like sixpack-rc, I avoid chips, fries, rice, beans, bananas, liquid calories, eating out, et cetera. But sixpack-rc’s body dumps its weight like it can’t get rid of it fast enough! The panda body clings to it desperately. Perhaps my body senses the upcoming apocalypse*. Sixpack-rc does perform more exercise than Gay Panda. Still, I haven’t noticed that exercise plays much part in my own rate of loss in times where I have exercised more heavily.

[Gay Panda]

PART TWO: So, here is our tally:

Two can lose a pound a day.
Two can lose two pounds a week. (This does not mean that they do so every week!)
Two can lose 1 ½ to 1-¾ pounds a week. (Ditto.)
Three can lose one pound a week. (Ditto.)
Two aren’t losing anything at this time.

So where does this leave Gay Panda? I was going to buy this book, but now I am not. I may get it from the library, but I just can’t support dangling dreams in front of desperate people. I’m still too annoyed at the latest Atkins cover right now. But I’m more forgiving of that one, because it wasn’t like Atkins designed the cover post mortem, and besides, it’s worked so far for Lady Friend. Not 15 pounds in two weeks, but nine since September 18th, and that’s a keeper.