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Thread: Half-marathon training plans that are primal friendly?? page 2

  1. #11
    riotnerd's Avatar
    riotnerd is offline Junior Member
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    Hi folks. I just came across this thread when searching for the same information.

    I've run 4 half marathons before, most recently in June. I'm planning on another in January, but I'd like to train in a more minimalist way because of training burnout, time constraints, injury prevention, etc. Since the last race in June I've adopted the routine of an interval/sprint session at the gym once a week (alternating 2 minutes at about a 9.0mph speed and 2 minutes at a fast walk of around 4.5mph for 20 minutes), and a 5 mile run I do once a week with a group. I was contemplating just keeping those 2 days pretty much the same and adding in the incrementally increasing long run on the weekends, which sounds pretty similar to what some of you are doing.

    My time for the last race was 1:58 so I'm shooting for about 1:50 next time.

    Can anyone share a progress report on how things are going? I know this thread is only a month old, so you might not have race results to share yet...but in general do you think you're getting faster?

    One other note...I've switched to running in Vibrams since the last race, which I love...but haven't gotten them above 5 miles yet. Has anybody done that, and do you recommend a slower than normal build-up of the long run to let the feet adapt?

  2. #12
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    Just on the question of build up in vibrams: I have been walking and hkiking in my vibrams full time for nearly a year now, walking an hour a day almost every day and 3 hour hikes on the weekend, and I do all my sprints in barefeet.

    Just recently I started training for a half marathon, my endurance would be fine, but I hadn't done any running other than sprints. I decided to build ups slowly, 2k, 4k 6k runs. After running 2k for the first time my achilles hurt a lot. Next run 2 days later it wan't too bad. Then to 4k and again it started to hurt a lot, but on the second 4k not to bad. Same deal for 6k. At that point I knew I could run the half marathon, but not in vibrams, trying would wreck my achilles. I simply don't have time left to prpare my legs to run in vibrams, so for this one I'll be in conventional running shoes, when its over I'll swap back to running in vibrams to train and stretch my achilles more (back to where it should be, had I not spent 22 years of my life in conventional shoes).

    For me I just take it easy, it never hurt too badly, if I tried to up the distance and it hurt too bad I would stop and walk home. I was adding 2km per week and that was working well.
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  3. #13
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    Long time barefoot runner here....you can't just put on Vibrams that have no heel lift and run the same distances...you have to adapt to running in a barefoot/flat shoe first...that could take 2-3 months at least.

    As I see it you two choices:

    1 - Start all over with running in flat shoes or actual barefoot at a mile or less each run and build up slowly to 20 - 25 miles a week no matter how long that takes without any lower leg issues.

    2 - Try to mix your current hi-heel shoe runs mixed with the Vibrams runs...slowly add in the Vibram distances a little more each week but you will hit a point where you have to switch over to the Vibrams exclusively then back off your miles to where you comfortable and build from there slowly.

    There is no plan you can follow for this...its an individual thing and hopefully you gain the body awareness along the way to judge for yourself how much to push it and how much to back off...the body awareness part is the most important part by far!!

    I wouldn't do any fast running while your trying to switch over...just take it slow and easy while adapting...there is no hurry...once you adapted it sticks! and you will have lots of choices in flat footwear or move on to full on barefoot running if you wish.

    As far as progress I started doing this long before Vibrams were for sale and it took me about 2 years before I ran a half marathon but I made all the mistakes you hear about from other runners...over doing it etc. After I learned from my mistakes and backed off and only ran barefoot for a whole summer did it all click together for me.

    Just wanted add that to make it more Primal which is a good thing read about low heartrate training by Phil Mafftone, thats not related to the Vibrams bit it fits with running long distances and Primal...basically adapting your body to burning fat while running.

    Terry





    E=riotnerd;576772]Hi folks. I just came across this thread when searching for the same information.

    I've run 4 half marathons before, most recently in June. I'm planning on another in January, but I'd like to train in a more minimalist way because of training burnout, time constraints, injury prevention, etc. Since the last race in June I've adopted the routine of an interval/sprint session at the gym once a week (alternating 2 minutes at about a 9.0mph speed and 2 minutes at a fast walk of around 4.5mph for 20 minutes), and a 5 mile run I do once a week with a group. I was contemplating just keeping those 2 days pretty much the same and adding in the incrementally increasing long run on the weekends, which sounds pretty similar to what some of you are doing.

    My time for the last race was 1:58 so I'm shooting for about 1:50 next time.

    Can anyone share a progress report on how things are going? I know this thread is only a month old, so you might not have race results to share yet...but in general do you think you're getting faster?

    One other note...I've switched to running in Vibrams since the last race, which I love...but haven't gotten them above 5 miles yet. Has anybody done that, and do you recommend a slower than normal build-up of the long run to let the feet adapt?[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by rockrunner; 09-24-2011 at 06:39 PM.

  4. #14
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    I started running distance with a group in Los Angeles known as the LA Leggers, they follow an adapted version of Jeff Galloway's Marathon training plans, which are pretty close to the kind of layout you are looking for. There are two mid-week runs (one additional optional run), two days of cross training, one long run day and a walking day to follow the long run. Galloway has lots of training plans on his website, might be worth checking out.

    Run long!

  5. #15
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    I can't see a huge benefit in the tempo run of the length being described. (Tempo being 10k - 1/2M pace run after 1-mile warm up and followed by 1-mile cool down.) They push the threshold and can help with sustained, steady state hard efforts but I think more would be gained by doing Hill repeats to strengthen the legs and prepare them for the pounding they can take in a hilly 1/2 M. You're already getting training on fast form and foot turnover with the sprint intervals.

    Find a steady incline, challenging but not to steep. Ideal would be a 1/4 mile in length. Run 3/4 speed up. Focus on good form with short steps, slight lean forward, strong push and good arm swing. Do a 20 - 30 second cool down jog at the top to allow your breathing to slow then run hard back down the hill. Straight form, leading with the hips, short steps and get the heels off the ground as fast as you can. Immediatly repeat and head back up the hill after reaching the bottom. Start with 4 - 5 and keep adding additional ones as you adapt/improve with training. I would begin the work out with an easy pace mile warm up and end with an easy pace mile cool down.

    The running week would now look like:

    Sprint intervals
    Easy pace long run.
    Hill repeats.

    The most difficult thing with this training is determining what race effort you can sustain for 1/2M distance. Not much of a distance base or varying training runs to judge from let alone, factor in some crowd push and race day excitement/majic. If it's a warm / hot day you likely will not be acclimated to it. The distance is easily long enough to create problems in hot weather. Part of the trade off for only spending 3 days a week on running / drills. Racing a small 5k and 10k would help nail down the pace average goal.
    Last edited by pace2race; 09-28-2011 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Additional thoughts.

  6. #16
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    Grumpycakes is offline Senior Member
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    I ran two half marathons and I can tell you that it takes no special training. Anyone who can walk at a relaxed pace for a couple of hours can pull off a half marathon. If you want to train for it, train your willpower. That's all you need. Also, do a 10-15 minute sprint session twice a week and walk everywhere you can, if you want to do well.

    Seriously.

    Forget the long runs, forget Jillian Michaels (who, by the way, is a sadist who is paid to torture fat people), forget boot camp. Forget everything but walking and a couple of all-out sprint sessions per week. The sprints are where your cardiovascular strength and endurance will come from.

    The half marathon itself is not Primal, so let's toss aside any illusions to that effect. I can think of only two reasons a prehistoric human might have needed to run 22 kilometers nonstop: he was trying to run down an incredibly strong prey animal, or he was trying to escape from a hunting party of people who were pissed off at him. Can you think of others? In either case, the lengthy run would have been unplanned.

    The half marathon is a modern exercise that people use to create some kind of feeling of achievement for themselves. It has no health benefits that eating properly and not sitting on your ass all day don't have, and in fact has quite a few health risks.

    Have fun.
    You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriGirl View Post
    I know this isn't really that much help but I have read of a danish coach using only tempo runs and intervals/fartleg in preparation for the marathon, so he never got over 10-15km and he did really well, so I actually think that if you do the intensity training correct you could get through the half without any long runs. But I am an endurance athlete myself and love the long runs so have never really practiced that.
    Cross-fit endurance has a similar concept. I do the bare minimum amount of long runs. I essentially trained to get better at the 5K and only added more miles once my VO2 max was pretty good. I think it worked pretty well. It only took a week to two to get used to the lactate threshold issues over longer distances as my cardio was already there.

    I don't really do anything too structured. Some weeks I'll do a long run and three treadmill runs. Some weeks I'll do a long run and cross train the rest of the week. Some weeks I'll do a race on the weekend if it's convenient. It hasn't run me down the way the 35-45 mile weeks used when I trained more traditionally.

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