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Thread: Starting out and looking for some advice on how to reach my goals. page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4890 View Post
    Especially the one about just focusing on gaining weight in the beginning, and once that is done, losing fat. I think I was about to commit the classic mistake of "doing everything at once"! =) \
    Or you can just be patient and focus on gaining lean tissue. I'm not sure what the benefits of gaining fat are.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by js290 View Post
    Or you can just be patient and focus on gaining lean tissue. I'm not sure what the benefits of gaining fat are.
    Hello js290, and thank you for your feedback.

    Could you elaborate a little bit? I thought that according to the previous post (maybe I misunderstood), I am supposed to focus on gaining some fat and muscle, and then focusing on getting rid of the fat.

    Are you telling me that it is equally feasible to just train without the "fat cure"? If so, I would be a lot more comfortable with that, than having to force myself to eat and drink abnormal amounts to gain fat, and then train, and then try to get rid of the fat once I gained muscle.

    How would I go about gaining lean tissue only? Is there something special to it or just the paleo diet + training without the excess food intake? You see, I tend to eat when I am hungry and that's it. Could I gain lean tissue without throwing in protein shakes and so on?

    Thank you for your feedback! =)

    Best regards,
    Daniel

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
    ... Sometimes you've got to get creative--or even just buy a 20-30 dollar pull up bar from walmart...will fit in any doorway...)
    Hmm, so I guess pull up bar it is! =)

    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
    I think its important to practice the basic levels of each of these things to work your way up to them.

    So, I would be sure to incorperate overhead press work (you could use the breakdown in PBF for this) towards Handstands then HSPUs.

    Obviously I find Al's site very helpful (most of the links are from there. ) This link might be helpful in figuring out where you are and how you should progress to reach your goals: Al Kavadlo We're Working Out! Mastering Your Body Weight

    HTH! Good luck with it all!
    Thank you very much for the advice and the pointers, your advice has been written down in my little training spread sheet as well. Lots of sites to cover now! =) Mentzer HIT, Al Kavadlo, Building an Olympic Body I'm feeling like I could read and read forever!

    I also detect some different philosophies I think, and that would be on the one hand, loading up on the correct nutrition, going to the gym a la mentzer and focusing on muscle gain, and then weight loss.

    On the other hand, there seems to be another philosophy of just going with the body weight path, and to stick with it. No special shakes or bars.

    I like the mentzer way because it seems like you can get loads of results, fast! And I can be quite impatient and I am afraid that if I don't get results in say a year, I will get bored and stop training. So that would be a great benefit with the Metnzer/HIT way.

    On the other hand, I hate going to scheduled activities in my spare time, and the anywhere/anytime approach of the body weight philosophy really appeals to me, but I get the feeling that the results will not be as quick.

    And finally, when it comes to proper amounts to proteins, carbs and fat, I feel like I cannot change everything at once. I have to select one approach to training, and get started. If I change my life style, training, diet habits all at once, I fear that everything will just be done without serious intent, some kind of "overload".

    Well, I'll be sure to check out the sites you gave me. Have a great evening! =)

    Best regards,
    Daniel

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4890 View Post
    Hello js290, and thank you for your feedback.

    Could you elaborate a little bit? I thought that according to the previous post (maybe I misunderstood), I am supposed to focus on gaining some fat and muscle, and then focusing on getting rid of the fat.

    Are you telling me that it is equally feasible to just train without the "fat cure"? If so, I would be a lot more comfortable with that, than having to force myself to eat and drink abnormal amounts to gain fat, and then train, and then try to get rid of the fat once I gained muscle.

    How would I go about gaining lean tissue only? Is there something special to it or just the paleo diet + training without the excess food intake? You see, I tend to eat when I am hungry and that's it. Could I gain lean tissue without throwing in protein shakes and so on?

    Thank you for your feedback! =)

    Best regards,
    Daniel
    Resistance training is the best known way to stimulate protein synthesis. How much additional lean muscle you'll be able to synthesize is dependent on your genetics. So, have some realistic expectations.

    BODY BY SCIENCE TRAINING VIDEO 2 — TODD BEARD

    Eat real foods. You don't need as much protein as is commonly believed.

    Health Correlator: How much dietary protein can you store in muscle? About 15 g/d if you are a gifted bodybuilder
    Health Correlator: Does strength exercise increase nitrogen balance?

    If you're going to give HIT a try, Mentzer's Workout A and B would be a good routine to start with. I'd recommend finding a good HIT trainer who can coach you properly on going to failure. The brutal effort in HIT is what's important.

  5. #15
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    Rule 1 is simple and should be obvious but people get confused.
    You can ONLY gain weight by eating more. (aside from water fluctuation or constipation or some other silly thing)

    No exercise program can get your body to pull new mass out of the air.

    In order to lean bulk you would have to miraculously eat exactly the surplus that you triggered your body to gain in muscle.
    If you miss low you starve your gains away.
    If your priority is never being fat that approach is ok.
    You get stronger and harder and maybe you gain significant mass maybe you don't.

    If you have a real priority to gain muscle then you have to set your calories definitely high enough to cover the growth you want.
    Some WILL be fat. There is room for argument about just how high to set your surplus but it seems like the overall experience of the bodybuilding world is that skinny guys do a lot better at gaining muscle if they are willing to accept quite a bit of fat gain at the same time.

    l

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcbcbc2 View Post
    Rule 1 is simple and should be obvious but people get confused.
    You can ONLY gain weight by eating more. (aside from water fluctuation or constipation or some other silly thing)

    No exercise program can get your body to pull new mass out of the air.

    In order to lean bulk you would have to miraculously eat exactly the surplus that you triggered your body to gain in muscle.
    If you miss low you starve your gains away.
    If your priority is never being fat that approach is ok.
    You get stronger and harder and maybe you gain significant mass maybe you don't.

    If you have a real priority to gain muscle then you have to set your calories definitely high enough to cover the growth you want.
    Some WILL be fat. There is room for argument about just how high to set your surplus but it seems like the overall experience of the bodybuilding world is that skinny guys do a lot better at gaining muscle if they are willing to accept quite a bit of fat gain at the same time.

    l
    Your hormones will dictate how much you need to eat and how much you're going to gain. You certainly can't be afraid to eat more. But, force feeding yourself isn't going to improve your lean tissue gains. It's easier to accumulate fat than it is to build muscle. Believing that fat gain is necessary for lean gain is a post hoc fallacy. Are lean tissue gains accompanied by some fat gains? Probably. But, I'm not sure the converse is true.

  7. #17
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    Most of that's unproven theory.
    There are some absolutes and basic trial and error:
    1. If you don't gain weight you're not eating enough.
    2. The body CANNOT add mass from maintenance calories
    Then there are only 2 logical paths
    A. Try to match the surplus to the desired gains
    B. Aim high and definitely get enough surplus

    Many skinny guys talk about lifting for weeks or months without gaining.
    They often blame the exercise for not gaining weight which is, pardon me, stupid.
    If they eat too much and gain a lot of fat at least they've established something to work from.
    If the gain is all fat then the exercise is ineffective.
    If there is acceptable muscle gain but too much fat they can reduce the surplus.

    In IT terms is a basic algorithm of if/thens which has to either work or identify a specific problem

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcbcbc2 View Post
    Most of that's unproven theory.
    Growth hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    The existence and general function of hormones is an entirely different thing than those hormones naturally stimulating appetite to eat the exact caloric surplus necessary for maximum lean gains without fat gain.

    I find it hard to believe that a 29 year old guy who weighs 123 is going to be naturally stimulated to eat a surplus. Not impossible though.

    I don't have much issue with trying it your way first. but if weight gain after two weeks is unsatisfactory start deliberately eating a surplus.

    I would have a huge problem doing it your way for months and then blaming genetics for lack of muscle gain.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcbcbc2 View Post
    The existence and general function of hormones is an entirely different thing than those hormones naturally stimulating appetite to eat the exact caloric surplus necessary for maximum lean gains without fat gain.
    How so? By your argument, we can get kids to grow by simply force feeding them. The simplest explanation physiologically between a kid in puberty vs a grown man is the amount of naturally occurring growth hormones.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcbcbc2 View Post
    I find it hard to believe that a 29 year old guy who weighs 123 is going to be naturally stimulated to eat a surplus. Not impossible though.
    If a grown man is able to stimulate the release of growth hormones (naturally or otherwise), then the appetite to required to grow has to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcbcbc2 View Post
    I don't have much issue with trying it your way first. but if weight gain after two weeks is unsatisfactory start deliberately eating a surplus.

    I would have a huge problem doing it your way for months and then blaming genetics for lack of muscle gain.
    To paraphrase John Little, "quarter horse genes with clydesdale dreams..."

    I mean, if someone wants to look bigger by carrying more fat, that's fine. But, don't delude yourself thinking fat gains lead to lean gains.

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