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  1. #3301
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    Ok, so thinking out loud here....what if you went for it and followed the JUDDD and increase the protein and/or carbs for a month just to see if the JUDDD would actually produce a weight loss. Then, once you get that experiment under your belt you can see if it really is the higher protein that was causing you a problem. If doing the straight JUDDD doesn't work, then there is no need to go on with it for weight loss (although I would still think a version would be viable for maintenance). If doing straight JUDDD does produce fat loss then you can start playing with the macro percentages after putting in the new weight on the JUDDD website.

    I just saw a blog (who knows where, but I think it was sweet geek) where she did shakes (homemade) to allow her body a rest after she went crazy at the holidays. She mixed it up to pretty much the percentages that EMF recommends (she used HWC, water, whey protein, and peanut butter). But the point is that you could try a version of that for a few days and see what happens. Using things like eggs, coconut milk, and sunbutter to get the balance -with regards calories, as well as fat/protein/carbs - needed to finish off an ud?

    I think that having a day (or 3) a week of very low calories is probably good not only for fat loss, but also for a variety of other systems in the body.

  2. #3302
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    DDs for me work if I have a good UD. I don't know how people who eat lots of carbs do this...it nearly drives me insane on a DD...the cravings! I have concluded, however, that I cannot do a strict EMF + UD/DD successfully. I cannot eat enough calories on an UD (with all of my restrictions!) to make it through a DD. Which isn't to say that I don't eat more fat than the average bear -- I do (fact is, at about 65%, I'm at the low end of most EMF protocols). But, to get the calories right, I either have to have more carbs or more protein (or some combo of both). But, since I gave EMF 3 full months and didn't get anywhere, I'm willing to be a bit more relaxed about it...assuming I see some "new" weight loss.
    What does JUDDD say about Macros because I agree, I can NOT follow both protocols on UD. dd's everything is low I try to get my percentagees right but ud's are a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by demuralist View Post
    Ruth, it is my memory that you were not reaching your calories on your ud's, is that true. Because if it is that may be the key according to my supporters at the JUDDD thread. Because I seem to remember that you were doing pretty well with your dd's. I also seem to remember that although you were unimpressed your weight seemed to have a downward trend.

    And yes, my current criteria for my WOE is doable for life (I don't feel deprived nor does it make me crazy trying to keep up with the details) and downward trending scale numbers. I am confident that a version of JUDD is doable for life, I just need to figure out which version also leads to the downward trending scale numbers.
    I think set appointed days and the way you set up the weekends will make this more doable for me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    I have been frustrated...but mostly because I have not lost any NEW weight. It's the exact same weight I've been playing with since before Christmas. After 4 weeks of UD/DD, I "lost" 2 pounds, but never getting back to my lowest low in the last 3 months. I stalled completely in Week 3 and gained in Week 4 (my typical pattern). [Maintenance week 5 is not looking so good after my birthday "refeed", even though my average calories over the past 7 days...even past 2 days...is perfectly respectable and in range.]

    Having said all that............ DDs are (generally) very easy for me, assuming I have a good UD. But, I cannot eat up to my UD calories (which you'll note is when I was losing weight...but was also in my usual 2 week loss pattern) and keep a true EMF protocol. I do think it could be a problem, based on what the very successful JUDDD forum ladies say, that I am not eating near my UD calories. I have to decide -- either eat more protein (and/or carbs) or know that I'm not "truly" doing the JUDDD protocol (I'm only doing some other version of very lo cal). It's why I'm attempting a maintenance week - I need a break to get my head on straight
    I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to do Primal the way Mark wrote it but I GAIN horribly.

    So whats the answer? More protein or more carbs?
    Karin


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  3. #3303
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    DDs for me work if I have a good UD. I don't know how people who eat lots of carbs do this...it nearly drives me insane on a DD...the cravings! I have concluded, however, that I cannot do a strict EMF + UD/DD successfully. I cannot eat enough calories on an UD (with all of my restrictions!) to make it through a DD. Which isn't to say that I don't eat more fat than the average bear -- I do (fact is, at about 65%, I'm at the low end of most EMF protocols). But, to get the calories right, I either have to have more carbs or more protein (or some combo of both). But, since I gave EMF 3 full months and didn't get anywhere, I'm willing to be a bit more relaxed about it...assuming I see some "new" weight loss.
    What does JUDDD say about Macros because I agree, I can NOT follow both protocols on UD. dd's everything is low I try to get my percentagees right but ud's are a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by demuralist View Post
    Ruth, it is my memory that you were not reaching your calories on your ud's, is that true. Because if it is that may be the key according to my supporters at the JUDDD thread. Because I seem to remember that you were doing pretty well with your dd's. I also seem to remember that although you were unimpressed your weight seemed to have a downward trend.

    And yes, my current criteria for my WOE is doable for life (I don't feel deprived nor does it make me crazy trying to keep up with the details) and downward trending scale numbers. I am confident that a version of JUDD is doable for life, I just need to figure out which version also leads to the downward trending scale numbers.
    I think set appointed days and the way you set up the weekends will make this more doable for me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    I have been frustrated...but mostly because I have not lost any NEW weight. It's the exact same weight I've been playing with since before Christmas. After 4 weeks of UD/DD, I "lost" 2 pounds, but never getting back to my lowest low in the last 3 months. I stalled completely in Week 3 and gained in Week 4 (my typical pattern). [Maintenance week 5 is not looking so good after my birthday "refeed", even though my average calories over the past 7 days...even past 2 days...is perfectly respectable and in range.]

    Having said all that............ DDs are (generally) very easy for me, assuming I have a good UD. But, I cannot eat up to my UD calories (which you'll note is when I was losing weight...but was also in my usual 2 week loss pattern) and keep a true EMF protocol. I do think it could be a problem, based on what the very successful JUDDD forum ladies say, that I am not eating near my UD calories. I have to decide -- either eat more protein (and/or carbs) or know that I'm not "truly" doing the JUDDD protocol (I'm only doing some other version of very lo cal). It's why I'm attempting a maintenance week - I need a break to get my head on straight
    I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to do Primal the way Mark wrote it but I GAIN horribly.

    So whats the answer? More protein or more carbs?
    Karin


    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

    What am I doing? Depends on the day.

  4. #3304
    demuralist's Avatar
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    JUDDD says what you eat for the calories don't matter basically. That your ud should be essentially what ever you were craving as long as you fall within your calorie limits. Personally I think that long term that would bite me in the butt.

    I am not having trouble getting my macro percentages, but I don't have any real dietary restrictions as pre-tracked- I am not as successful at eating them correctly, yet. But I truly think that doing the liquid diet on M/W/F is going to make it easier as I can just adjust the ingredients of the smoothie as needed. I like it, so far, much better than trying to just eat the 500 calories.

    p.s. straight Primal didn't work for me either, or I would not have kept experimenting. Although now I am curious as to what I was doing when I got down to the 250 mark since I have been on MDA. I was doing Paul McKenna (mindful eating) to hit the 230 mark on Spark People.

    p.p.s. I just checked, March 2012 was while we were doing SPEED My macro %'s were closer to 50% fat, 35% Protein, and 16% net carbs, my calories were anywhere from 1400 to 2100. So maybe I should ease up on the macros and just focus on the JUDDD
    Last edited by demuralist; 04-08-2013 at 09:06 AM.

  5. #3305
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    athomeontherange is online now Senior Member
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    Well then on my ud's, I am not going to stress or worry. On those days I am eating more veggies (you heard it here Chris). The majority of my overage on carbs come from there since I am dairy free (I have to remember CM has carbs too). I think ud's are just basic primal days- thought pretty low carb for me.
    Karin


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  6. #3306
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    yeah!!!!

    Actually that is what I am going to do as well, go for the low starch veggies on ud's.

    On my W/F dd's I will do bone broth/bouillon/butter for "lunch" - while I am at home it doesn't appeal, so I will make another smoothie. I am curious to see how my morning smoothie-which had no veggies in it and an egg-holds up versus my lunch and dinner ones-which I am going to use egg whites and veggies in, spinach at lunch and cukes at dinner. I wanted to allow myself a cup of tea with HWC at the end of the night.

    I am having a pretty good day so far. I am keeping with my (non)food plan, I have done the laundry including DH's dress clothes, I have gotten my hair colored, and I did my errands (grocery, post office, bank, and drop off something at church). I would feel fantastic if my TTOM would stop pounding my abdomen and lower back!

  7. #3307
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    Ok, so I walked in the door from rifle irritated. Ms. "organizer" wants us (DS and I) to come help park cars tomorrow because we haven't parked this year yet. I already told her we volunteer in other ways and we would not be parking cars, we have already done more than our share. DS has been a member of the team for 5 years and helped park cars every other year (most of the team members are only there 1 or 2 years). Parking cars is a fund raiser. Anyway, we run a "Friday Knights" fun night once a month for team building, I have painted 3 murals for them as well as painting the range itself (I donated the paint as well), I have sat in practices for the first 3 years so that the team could practice (there has to be a female coach present if female members are there). We have organized the family get to know ya every year, which requires not only coordinating food and drinks but also setting up a range in the gym on the 3rd floor-carrying all the backstops up the stairs.

    I ate a piece of cheese and some celery. Total emotional eating, but luckily I stopped before it went too far. I am actually impressed that is all I ate. So see, I am improving!

  8. #3308
    demuralist's Avatar
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    SW 2/26/13 =274.8
    CW=270.0 down 3.2 and second day of TTOM
    Sleep= 7:21 93% efficiency
    Urine Ketones= didn't bother
    Blood Ketones= LO
    FBS= out of sticks
    Calories = 661
    Net Carbs = 14g/8%
    Fat= 55g/72%
    Protein= 33g/19%
    KR = 1.46 I think this is supposed to be about the same as "optimal ketones" so 1.0 to 3.0?

    So I begin to wonder if some people just don't show ketones either in urine or in blood? We shall see what a full week of this does, but I think I am just wasting stix.

    Yesterday was not exactly as planned, but it was still reasonable. And I let go of significant water weight! Spent most of the day going to the bathroom.

    Today is an ud, so life is easy.

  9. #3309
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    Quote Originally Posted by demuralist View Post
    Ok, so I walked in the door from rifle irritated. Ms. "organizer" wants us (DS and I) to come help park cars tomorrow because we haven't parked this year yet. I already told her we volunteer in other ways and we would not be parking cars, we have already done more than our share. DS has been a member of the team for 5 years and helped park cars every other year (most of the team members are only there 1 or 2 years). Parking cars is a fund raiser. Anyway, we run a "Friday Knights" fun night once a month for team building, I have painted 3 murals for them as well as painting the range itself (I donated the paint as well), I have sat in practices for the first 3 years so that the team could practice (there has to be a female coach present if female members are there). We have organized the family get to know ya every year, which requires not only coordinating food and drinks but also setting up a range in the gym on the 3rd floor-carrying all the backstops up the stairs.

    I ate a piece of cheese and some celery. Total emotional eating, but luckily I stopped before it went too far. I am actually impressed that is all I ate. So see, I am improving!
    I applaud your self control!

    Quote Originally Posted by demuralist View Post
    SW 2/26/13 =274.8
    CW=270.0 down 3.2 and second day of TTOM
    Sleep= 7:21 93% efficiency
    Urine Ketones= didn't bother
    Blood Ketones= LO
    FBS= out of sticks
    Calories = 661
    Net Carbs = 14g/8%
    Fat= 55g/72%
    Protein= 33g/19%
    KR = 1.46 I think this is supposed to be about the same as "optimal ketones" so 1.0 to 3.0?

    So I begin to wonder if some people just don't show ketones either in urine or in blood? We shall see what a full week of this does, but I think I am just wasting stix.

    Yesterday was not exactly as planned, but it was still reasonable. And I let go of significant water weight! Spent most of the day going to the bathroom.

    Today is an ud, so life is easy.
    Who knows about ketones- they are often elusive to me. Yeah for the loss though!
    Karin


    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

    What am I doing? Depends on the day.

  10. #3310
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    Hooray for losing water weight! I know my pants don't feel right, even if it's "just water".

    Over on Low Carb friends, I think so people had a dickens of a time ever getting into NK...even after a few weeks of very low protein and carbs. I don't know. If you continue to see a downward trend, though, not sure it matters?

    I think I would have done more than you after Rifle practice (almost over, though, right?)....

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