Primal Journal-deMuralist page 199

[athomeontherange]

ahh.. do if I understand you: If you are exercising its best to be at the high end of your protein requirements because the excess is used as carbs. I think I understand that. It also goes with the whole, you need more fuel if you are working out.

As for the no sugar or grains.. one day at a time sista! 12 step it if you have to. lol

[demuralist]

the science reasoning escapes me, but here I will cut and paste what he said and we can parse it together....

"- If one's goal is to minimize blood sugar levels, then eating nothing but fat would seem to be the most effective way to reach that goal. However, if one's goal is anything else (for example, avoiding overweight and being healthy and happy), adding nutrient dense proteins and non-starchy vegetables into the mix would likely be a good call. History and the scientific literature agree on a couple things here:
1. Natural fats are good for us.
2. Natural fats aren't the only thing that's good for us.
3. Carbohydrate is not essential, protein is...so are vitamins and minerals
4. There's quite a bit of individual variation on how much carbohydrate, fat, and protein we can tolerate and our individual blood sugar or general hormonal response to each

I say this because I think this is an area where science shows us the fundamental building blocks we need to work with (non-starchy vegetables, nutrient dense proteins, whole food natural fats, and low-sugar fruits) and it's up to us each as individuals to find the proportions of these foods that help us to each reach our respective goals as efficiently and enjoyably as possible.

I'm happy that Jimmy and co. (here he is specifically responding to the discussion in the thresd) have found an approach that works for them...and it's my goal with SSoS to help us each have a foundation of science on which we can find an approach that works for us. There's one "right diet" like there is one "right outfit;" there isn't one


PS It seems like part of human nature (or at least some of the internet nutrition world) to see things as black and white. For example, we should either eat "no fat" or "only fat." As Aristotle told us thousands of years ago, the right answer is probably somewhere in the middle and depends on our unique circumstance.

PPS SSoS's protein recommendations are within the range Volek and Phinney recommend (albeit on the higher end of that range...and we can attribute that to my recommendations assuming we're also doing eccentric exercise which increases our protein requirements)."

Since the last time I actually lost weight was when I was low carb and pre-primal (I literally have not lost a single pound since I began primal) I am working my way back toward that but in a manner that I can live with. When I did it successfully I was doing a "Mediterranean" version, which was a bit higher in veggies than Atkins. I also did cheese but not other dairy so I will likely go back to that, because it is easy appetizer for company, and cottage cheese and plain yogurt feel like a diet to me.

I will eventually add more movement. We should get the car back, finally, after 3 months, which will give me time to get back to my morning 20 to 30 minute walk. As to the whole weight thing-hopefully sooner rather than later, I just have to get over despising it!

[athomeontherange]

Its almost like losing weight is a riddle with an elusive answer because it is different for everyone. I think that is what makes this distressing and seem like so much dang work. You would think, as long as I am eating healthy foods in healthy proportions I should be fine. However, this is not necessarily the case. There is way more to it and it seems almost to complex. Why can this not be easier? If it were easier perhaps we would not despise it as much.

[demuralist]

It is probably way easier than we allow it to be. If we got so busy enjoying the things we did so much that we only stopped when we were really hungry, and only ate what we really wanted (which I am convinced we would do the "right thing") and stopped when we weren't hungry anymore and went back to something interesting, I bet we would be thin as a rail. Unfortunately we (at least I) got involved in the whole food process to the point that I over think it. Honestly, we have obviously evolved to be able to survive and thrive if we don't let our brains try to take over!

Actually, I think it probably is all right to a point. We need higher carb in the cooler months to store up enough fat to keep us warm (that is why higher carb veggies are in season then and meat is harder to find) and lower carb in the summer to lean up so we can survive the heat (summer veggies are lower in carbs and meat is easier to find). And to go even further, I wonder if we all didn't evolve a bit differently depending on where our caveman ancestors evolved.

Man, I should write a book, I could make millions:~) I would have to do some serious photoshopping on the author photo so people would think it made you skinny, but hey, I am sure it wouldn't be the first time!

[athomeontherange]

It is probably way easier than we allow it to be. If we got so busy enjoying the things we did so much that we only stopped when we were really hungry, and only ate what we really wanted (which I am convinced we would do the "right thing") and stopped when we weren't hungry anymore and went back to something interesting, I bet we would be thin as a rail. Unfortunately we (at least I) got involved in the whole food process to the point that I over think it. Honestly, we have obviously evolved to be able to survive and thrive if we don't let our brains try to take over!

Actually, I think it probably is all right to a point. We need higher carb in the cooler months to store up enough fat to keep us warm (that is why higher carb veggies are in season then and meat is harder to find) and lower carb in the summer to lean up so we can survive the heat (summer veggies are lower in carbs and meat is easier to find). And to go even further, I wonder if we all didn't evolve a bit differently depending on where our caveman ancestors evolved.

Man, I should write a book, I could make millions:~) I would have to do some serious photoshopping on the author photo so people would think it made you skinny, but hey, I am sure it wouldn't be the first time!

ebook!! How hard could it be?? LOL

[Pebbles67]

I know what you mean about diet confusion. I like having carb at each meal, but something is still missing. I am exhausted in the afternoon. I think I will have start my protein drink again.

Then sometimes I think about VLC and want to try that again. Geez, I just want to lose weight. The truth is that I lost weight best when I just ate Primal stuff and did not think about it too much.

[demuralist]

Looking back over the past lets say 5 years, there are only 2 methods that worked for me for weight loss. The first, from Paul McKenna's "I Can Make You Thin" was ridiculously simple, but I could not sustain it (when you read them and think a minute about them you will know why). It was the 4 Golden Rules....

1. Eat only when you are physically hungry
2. Eat only what you really want
3. Eat slowly and mindfully
4. Stop when you are no longer hungry

I could manage any 3 but for some reason could not get all 4 going. Even at that I did lose from 288.2 (my highest ever) to 235 my lowest since the middle of my second pregnancy. It was a pretty short period of time. But as soon as I got back on the scale, I went back to controlling what I ate and gained back to 288 over the course of about 3 years.

Then in the spring of 2011, I started induction, felt like crap and could not sustain it, so added carbs. Then shifted to a Mediterranean version of low carb. This felt good and I lost down to 265ish. Then I decided to start Primal because it would be "healthier" and not lost another pound. Did SPEED, nothing.

Now I am doing SSoS, it is very similar to the Ketogenic Mediterranean Low Carb (KMD...http://advancedmediterraneandiet.com...ersion_2.3.pdf) that worked. It is mostly Primal in the sense that I eat real foods. I am also working toward using this to make the 4 Golden Rules work for me. When using them, rule #2 is easier when I have gotten off of my drive for easy carbs (sugar and grains) and when I follow #1 without any delay. For #1 I feel a twinge and if I ignore it the next thing that happens is a carb fest. But I feel sure that if I could just get really good at #3 those issues would not be issues.


But right now my focus is on healing. Because I know that becoming stable is the only way I will reach a lower set point. So I am not doing the scale, it is not good for my mental or physical health.

[RMS123]

There have been only two ways where I've lost weight: calorie counting of some form (whether it be points or straight calories; to a much lesser extent, carbs) and when I first went paleo/primal. The first one is obvious - I tend to eat too much - even if it's mostly "healthy". The second was most likely two-fold: I helped heal myself (because I was gluten & dairy intolerant, and that's actually what lead me here...I cleaned up my diet A LOT) and there was natural calorie restriction by changing to better foods (I wasn't eating any more of that "diet" stuff).

Incidently, when I first went primal it was so very easy. I had only read the Primal Blueprint and the main site. Nothing on the forums. I ate meat (I didn't focus on lean or fatty -- just a variety of quality meats), tons of veggies (which I had not been doing before - I also paid no attention to the "carb" count of veggies - I just ate them), some fruit (I wasn't obsessed either way, and didn't eat that much of it), a few nuts (not a lot). IF, VLC, high fat -- none of that really helped (well, IF took off some weight I had gained during the move, but didn't take me further). I actually think all that tweaking has made things worse for me. The "basics" were what really worked.

However, I did stall at 170 and have been trying to work my way down from there. I suspect I'm at the more difficult layer for myself - learning natural calorie control. I do not want to count for the rest of my life, so I"m going to need to master the Paul McKenna golden rules Easier said than hone...but I from my observation, most naturally thin people I know eat like that.

[demuralist]

I think what is "working" for me right now (at least mentally) is that I am focused on getting in those 10 veggies. I am not excessively tracking, and what I do is mostly to help me remember to focus on getting those veggies in. Once I know I am getting the veggies in, then I add in a reasonable protein source each time I eat. I am finding for the most part 3 to 4 times a day works best as far as number of times to eat. And I am trying to vary the sources of both protein and veggies, so that I don't duplicate during the same day. When I am spot on with this, even after 1 day, I feel so much better.

I truly think that getting off the scale is helping to keep me from excessive tweaking (only minor tweaking, I just can't let go of the idea that there is a perfect way to eat that I can achieve)

In a situation in which I count calories or points (and to a much lesser degree, for some unknown reason, carbs) I feel the need to see how far off course I can get and still lose. Which of course just keeps me farther afield until I don't feel I can return. Also it means I am focused on the scale instead of my health.

It is my ultimate goal to be at a reasonable weight and living by the 4 Golden Rules.

[athomeontherange]

I have been living off the scale. However, after reading quantum paleo he gives a good reason for weighing everyday. I am still thinking on this but here is the gist:

Weight yourself everyday for a week. Get your average. Then, you find your range which he said is your lowest weight to your average. He mentions taking into account ovulation and TOM weeks to. He also talks about finding your body fat % but never mind, that just throws a monkey in it. I mean really? We all know about where out fat percentage is. At least I do.. and it will not change significantly until I lose significant weight. I digress. Anywhoo.. he says that weighing daily can be stressful seeing the numbers go up and down. He said that is why people get discouraged. However, he said that once you know your range, when you weigh as long as you are in that range you are fine. Now he says the range can be 3-4 pounds. So.. this obsessing over a number that at least I know I have done makes this make sense. He recommends that you weigh daily and record the weight daily. As you lose, you will then alter your range for your daily weight. This sounds a bit like speed doesn't it? So.. I think I will give this a go. I will start the weighing to find my range tomorrow.