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Thread: Health, not weight page 19

  1. #181
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    Chris Masterjohn post on diet dogmatism:
    The Daily Lipid: Against Dietary Dogmatism

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy2078 View Post
    There is no PB requirement to be fit like a bodybuilder, to run five miles a day, to climb a redwood tree, to act if doomsday is coming and our survival will depend on our health status.
    There are, however, some basic guidelines laid out in both PB and PBF as to what "FIT" is (in a general sort of way)
    Eating right is the core of PB, isn't it?
    I don't know if I agree with this. One of the things that attracted me to PB is that it's more than just a diet/eating right. Yes, you get some benefit to following the PB outline for diet, but my feeling is that if you incorporate ALL the tenets of PB, there's a synergistic effect -- eating right helps you sleep better which gives you more energy which means you feel like being more active (because of the increased energy or the eating right, I don't know...probably a little of both) and so you have less stress (being more active, sleeping better, or more energy? probably all three) so you lose a little fat your body has been holding onto (lack of Cortisol) so you feel better and have the guts to try something new and now maybe you're "playing" more and possibly even out in the sun, so you feel better and sleep better(Again why? well, all of the above!) and then....well, you get the idea.

    There is NO core of PB. The eating thing is where people usually go first because, let's face it, as a culture we're obsessed with diet and eating (and I include myself in that statement) But, when you break it down by the 10 laws, there are actually only 2 that relate to eating. There are as many as 4 that could apply to fitness, perhaps even 5...although that would be counting "play" and "rest" which are probably shared with "use your brain" and "avoid trauma" with what I call the "mental" aspect of it...but, then where does "Sun" come in? Fitness? Mental? It's sorta related to eating since followers of CW have gone backwards about things and ingested vitamin D for years instead of getting it from the sun. You see, things are so blended and inseparable.

    But, I suppose that everyone's opinion of what PB is will obviously differ.
    Nobody here is advocating being sedentary at all. The OP certainly isn't sedentary.
    Definitely by comparison to before, this is most certainly true. However, I don't know that under even the loosest term of the definition of "fit" (as it is defined under the auspices of PB...which, again, I KNOW is very open to individual interpretation) that the OP is there yet. Worse yet, the *impression* that he seems to be giving off is that he's reached a point of not even TRYING to move in that direction (as it pertains to fitness) and for people that have a genuine concern for the OP, I think that's troubling to them. It's one thing to say, "I can't do this X/Y/Z thing related to fitness, but I'm *trying* to get there." It's a whole other thing to say, "I don't need to get to X/Y/Z thing related to fitness." And, I'm not talking running marathons or being able to deadlift 6-gagillion pounds. I'm talking about the stuff laid out in the PB laws -- and expanded upon in PBF. I think that if Griff were hitting the basics of the PB laws relating to fitness AND following good PB eating AND all the "other stuff" -- sun, sleep, play, etc. and the weight still wasn't coming off, then at that point it would be pretty clear that he's not an individual that's going to weigh much less and be fit and healthy...AND HE SHOULDN'T TRY TO BE! But, I think it's pretty clear he hasn't reached a point where he can make that conclusion. Again, this is all based on my understanding/impression of what PB is and I realize this differs from person to person.

    Maybe Griff feels like what he's taken on with PB is all he can take on. The change in diet, the (apparently...again, I'm not there) large amounts of "Move Slowly, but Frequently" with his campus walks, etc are great steps...but I think under PB that the puzzle is not complete. Maybe Griff feels like at this point, he can't take on anymore of PB...and that's a VERY REASONABLE place to be. I know that I'm not all the way there and there are components of PB that for me are "on hold" so to speak while I try to nail down the components I've tried to put into practice. Get good at "X" before I try to tackle "Y" kind of thinking...

    I think what most people (the ones that care, not the ones that are flaming/trolling) are trying to say is: Even if you don't feel like you can do it NOW...at least be open to the possibility of doing it LATER as a way of continuing to move on the spectrum of being a more fit, more healthy individual.

    Oh, and your analogy? So way out of there. Stopping alcholism is about stopping drinking while PB is about stopping eating foods that weren't good for us. Neither mandated losing weight in order to get better.
    If PB was ONLY about stopping eating foods that weren't good for us, I'd agree. But, just by looking at the 10 PB Laws, that's *clearly* not the case.
    Last edited by tim_1522; 08-17-2011 at 05:37 PM.

  3. #183
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    "Eating right is at the core of PB".
    I definitely agree with this. Has to start with what we are ingesting.
    Core: The basic or most important part; the essence. Not the only part.
    Last edited by Sue; 08-17-2011 at 05:44 PM.

  4. #184
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    well i went back and read what he wrote many many pages ago & basically he likes being fat and he doesn't like to sweat. End of story. I'm sorry i wasted my time to suggest brain-puzzle-trails. I think he's in SoCal? That's like trail central. I think the weather there is probably like pretty much perfect for being outside.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Please don't make assumptions about people's bodies. I'm guessing there are just as many fat people screaming in opposition to the possibility of healthy fat bodies as there are people who think it could be possible.

    Or do I have to post my body measurements and prove I'm not a fattie before I'm credible?
    I guarantee you I can make assumptions into the 90th percentile on threads like this. The people who talk the loudest on these threads are either above 30 BMI or over 275#. They are the same posters who are always negative - especially on subjects like IF'ing, exercise, carb refeeds, weightlifting, low bodyfat, calorie counting, using a scale to measure food or body weight, tweaking macros. It always turns into an argument between leaner people who say something has worked for them at one time and 'assumed' unlean people who dogmatically rejects the method because it didn't work for them or doesn't work for everyone all of the time. It's the difference between people who are positive and trying hard to change to be healthier and people who are always shooting every idea down. It's crystal clear to me - many of the very same posters on the same type of threads. I have NEVER seen a photo of one of them! What motive do the lean successful people have in sharing their successful methods here if at every corner it is met with resistance by a number of people who appear not to want to get it fucking done?! There's always the next study to point to in rationalizing - always going to be conventional wisdom to argue against - always an excuse..... why can't people just read Mark's book, follow his advice 100%, and interact here with people of all types and exchange ideas on how to get even healthier? Why always argue about what won't work for you?

    And hell yes! I think people should post a recent in swimwear photo of themselves for credability. What else if is there to go by? What is Mark's biggest marketing tool? His healthy body! But no, there's always 15 posters that want to point out that .0001% of the population can be obese and outlive Mark Sisson body types. WTF, seriously? Some people will never be lean or healthy - end of fucking story.

    The more I hear people who profess to want to be healthy the more I think it ISN'T 80% food and 20% exercise - there needs to be a huge percentage in there dedicated toward attitude, desire and mental health. A psychologist could have a career just dealing with the obese, how they think, and how that leads to their actions and habits.

    Why do I care? Because of the successful lean people that no longer post here because of this environment. They will continue to leave with 'de-bunked' success stories in tow to live healthier lives because who wants to get told all day long what won't work to become rich by a bunch of broke people?

    I've ssen this from day one. Ironically, just ask Griff - I mentioned it in my first ever post here - and there he was delivering me a rant. A self professed fat activist telling everyone how to be heathy? And I thought that the calorie theory nazi's were idiots.

    And no, I don't think obese people have equal desire to be lean as a person who was obese and is now lean. If they do, what good is desire without successful action/results? Yeah, just argue all day long against those that are successful doing what you profess to be trying to accompllish - that'll get you healthy...

    This place is so incessantly negative that I don't even have the desire to post to my journal anymore. Why bother when I will be successful without wasting my time? As of this morning I have lost 30.2% of my total body mass and gotten stronger doing it..... yeah, I wanna argue about calorie theory and other bullshit with obese people who are happy with 290# - and who rant about throwing away scales and post studies about how the obese live longer than lean people if all other key risks are independantly controlled.... really?

    Let's all post photos today and see where each of us are in one year. That's the bottom fucking line.

    / rant.

    .
    Last edited by Voyageur; 08-18-2011 at 06:44 AM.
    There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    I guarantee you I can make assumptions into the 90th percentile on threads like this. The people who talk the loudest on these threads are either above 30 BMI or over 275#. They are the same posters who are always negative - especially on subjects like IF'ing, exercise, carb refeeds, weightlifting, low bodyfat, calorie counting, using a scale to measure food or body weight, tweaking macros. It always turns into an argument between leaner people who say something has worked for them at one time and 'assumed' unlean people who dogmatically rejects the method because it didn't work for them or doesn't work for everyone all of the time. It's the difference between people who are positive and trying hard to change to be healthier and people who are always shooting every idea down. It's crystal clear to me - many of the very same posters on the same type of threads. I have NEVER seen a photo of one of them! What motive do the lean successful people have in sharing their successful methods here if at every corner it is met with resistance by a number of people who appear not to want to get it fucking done?! There's always the next study to point to in rationalizing - always going to be conventional wisdom to argue against - always an excuse..... why can't people just read Mark's book, follow his advice 100%, and interact here with people of all types and exchange ideas on how to get even healthier? Why always argue about what won't work for you?

    And hell yes! I think people should post a recent in swimwear photo of themselves for credability. What else if is there to go by? What is Mark's biggest marketing tool? His healthy body! But no, there's always 15 posters that want to point out that .0001% of the population can be obese and outlive Mark Sisson body types. WTF, seriously? Some people will never be lean or healthy - end of fucking story.

    The more I hear people who profess to want to be healthy the more I think it ISN'T 80% food and 20% exercise - there needs to be a huge percentage in there dedicated toward attitude, desire and mental health. A psychologist could have a career just dealing with the obese, how they think, and how that leads to their actions and habits.

    Why do I care? Because of the successful lean people that no longer post here because of this environment. They will continue to leave with 'de-bunked' success stories in tow to live healthier lives because who wants to get told all day long what won't work to become rich by a bunch of broke people?

    I've ssen this from day one. Ironically, just ask Griff - I mentioned it in my first ever post here - and there he was delivering me a rant. A self professed fat activist telling everyone how to be heathy? And I thought that the calorie theory nazi's were idiots.

    And no, I don't think obese people have equal desire to be lean as a person who was obese and is now lean. If they do, what good is desire without successful action/results? Yeah, just argue all day long against those that are successful doing what you profess to be trying to accompllish - that'll get you healthy...

    This place is so incessantly negative that I don't even have the desire to post to my journal anymore. Why bother when I will be successful without wasting my time? As of this morning I have lost 30.2% of my total body mass and gotten stronger doing it..... yeah, I wanna argue about calorie theory and other bullshit with obese people who are happy with 290# - and who rant about throwing away scales and post studies about how the obese live longer than lean people if all other key risks are independantly controlled.... really?

    Let's all post photos today and see where each of us are in one year. That's the bottom fucking line.

    / rant.

    .
    +1000 I'm giving up trying to "help" folks with this. The people who are going to do it will find a way regardless. The rest don't really want to. Whatever is keeping them obese is stronger than their desire to not be obese. They can think about it all they want. Thoughts aren't real. Only action is real. Being obese is not healthy, pretending that it is is a delusion.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    why can't people just read Mark's book, follow his advice 100%, and interact here with people of all types and exchange ideas on how to get even healthier? Why always argue about what won't work for you?
    Because change is hard. Arguing is quite easy. Especially so with strangers on the Internet.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    WOW. So much bias in such a little space.

    I have only been here 4 months but Griff doesnt strike me as a lazy fat ass as some of you seem to project.

    The personal attacks however veiled they were only cloud the pertinent information which was "adipose tissue" is not the giant health risk we have been taught to beleive it is.
    +1 !
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  9. #189
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    nice post, in the 18 months i've been coming to this site i've seen it transform from a positive place with a lot of good info to a place that's very confusing with a lot of posts that contradict everything mark says and thats disappointing. this post of griff's really hit a nerve with me because if we want to say obesity is healthy then we are wasting our time. i think griff secretly likes to post and say outlandish things because he gets a thrill from how people respond to him. either way i wish this site would go back to the way it was when i started instead of the place it has become
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    I guarantee you I can make assumptions into the 90th percentile on threads like this. The people who talk the loudest on these threads are either above 30 BMI or over 275#. They are the same posters who are always negative - especially on subjects like IF'ing, exercise, carb refeeds, weightlifting, low bodyfat, calorie counting, using a scale to measure food or body weight, tweaking macros. It always turns into an argument between leaner people who say something has worked for them at one time and 'assumed' unlean people who dogmatically rejects the method because it didn't work for them or doesn't work for everyone all of the time. It's the difference between people who are positive and trying hard to change to be healthier and people who are always shooting every idea down. It's crystal clear to me - many of the very same posters on the same type of threads. I have NEVER seen a photo of one of them! What motive do the lean successful people have in sharing their successful methods here if at every corner it is met with resistance by a number of people who appear not to want to get it fucking done?! There's always the next study to point to in rationalizing - always going to be conventional wisdom to argue against - always an excuse..... why can't people just read Mark's book, follow his advice 100%, and interact here with people of all types and exchange ideas on how to get even healthier? Why always argue about what won't work for you?

    And hell yes! I think people should post a recent in swimwear photo of themselves for credability. What else if is there to go by? What is Mark's biggest marketing tool? His healthy body! But no, there's always 15 posters that want to point out that .0001% of the population can be obese and outlive Mark Sisson body types. WTF, seriously? Some people will never be lean or healthy - end of fucking story.

    The more I hear people who profess to want to be healthy the more I think it ISN'T 80% food and 20% exercise - there needs to be a huge percentage in there dedicated toward attitude, desire and mental health. A psychologist could have a career just dealing with the obese, how they think, and how that leads to their actions and habits.

    Why do I care? Because of the successful lean people that no longer post here because of this environment. They will continue to leave with 'de-bunked' success stories in tow to live healthier lives because who wants to get told all day long what won't work to become rich by a bunch of broke people?

    I've ssen this from day one. Ironically, just ask Griff - I mentioned it in my first ever post here - and there he was delivering me a rant. A self professed fat activist telling everyone how to be heathy? And I thought that the calorie theory nazi's were idiots.

    And no, I don't think obese people have equal desire to be lean as a person who was obese and is now lean. If they do, what good is desire without successful action/results? Yeah, just argue all day long against those that are successful doing what you profess to be trying to accompllish - that'll get you healthy...

    This place is so incessantly negative that I don't even have the desire to post to my journal anymore. Why bother when I will be successful without wasting my time? As of this morning I have lost 30.2% of my total body mass and gotten stronger doing it..... yeah, I wanna argue about calorie theory and other bullshit with obese people who are happy with 290# - and who rant about throwing away scales and post studies about how the obese live longer than lean people if all other key risks are independantly controlled.... really?

    Let's all post photos today and see where each of us are in one year. That's the bottom fucking line.

    / rant.

    .

  10. #190
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    Meh, haven't you guys gone around this mulberry bush enough times? Get the eff off the merry go round, there's others that want to play.

    So basically, check it... it's the internet, there's no actual proof anyone here is telling the truth in any of these posts. The OP has his own decisions to make and his own cross to bear. The thoughts, flames, and arguing of a few people on the internet are going to have minimal impact on his choices, in the long and short term. To think anything differently is demonstrating a bad case of hubris.

    ...and for people that have a genuine concern for the OP...
    Well, knock it the eff off. Unless you know him in a face to face sense. Is it a genuine concern for his well being (OF WHICH HE DEFINES AND DIRECTS) or is it an intense need to make sure they're the one that is heard and become his personal expert?

    Seriously, knock off the bullshit and sniping back and forth. It's the definition of full retard.

    This thread has gone full retard, circled the sun, and is starting to make a second go of it. This thread should be closed.

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