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Thread: Health, not weight page 18

  1. #171
    SteakNchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    I know this is basically a zombie thread now, but I work in a hospital and we see primarily two types of people: Thin folks in their 90's coming to bid farewell to a life well-lived, and obese people in their 60's dying of easily preventable ailments. I see extremely few obese folks older than 70. While it's anecdotal and only based on the population of my city, I have no doubt in my mind that losing the pudge will help you extend your life, regardless of your diet. Regardless of your diet, and aerobic fortitude, and strength. Your heart wasn't designed to push blood through four times the amount of body mass you were programmed to have, and your bones are not dense enough, and cannot be made dense enough (or your soft joint tissues resilient enough) to make up for the excess weight. Body builders suffer similarly shortened lifespans for the same exact reasons. Too much mass for the organs provided to support. And no, your organs cannot grow to four times their size to make up for the giant wads of meat or fat you decide to armor yourself with. It's bad to be underweight, too, for the record.
    Bodybuilders die early because

    1. Most of them take "steroids" (which are getting much more advanced than old time steroids)
    2. Most of them take HGH and/or deer antler spray
    3. They gain 30 lbs, then lose 20 lbs. Then they do that again.
    4. They take a lot of questionable supplements
    5. They're eating all these protein drinks with artificial sweeteners, etc.

    Body mass may have something to do with it, but certainly not most of it.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    I know this is basically a zombie thread now, but I work in a hospital and we see primarily two types of people: Thin folks in their 90's coming to bid farewell to a life well-lived, and obese people in their 60's dying of easily preventable ailments. I see extremely few obese folks older than 70. While it's anecdotal and only based on the population of my city, I have no doubt in my mind that losing the pudge will help you extend your life, regardless of your diet. Regardless of your diet, and aerobic fortitude, and strength. Your heart wasn't designed to push blood through four times the amount of body mass you were programmed to have, and your bones are not dense enough, and cannot be made dense enough (or your soft joint tissues resilient enough) to make up for the excess weight. Body builders suffer similarly shortened lifespans for the same exact reasons. Too much mass for the organs provided to support. And no, your organs cannot grow to four times their size to make up for the giant wads of meat or fat you decide to armor yourself with. It's bad to be underweight, too, for the record.
    Great point.

    Imagine yourself saying "I just don't really care for running, in fact I may never run again for any reason if I can help it."


    ... now imagine there's somebody in a wheelchair right next to you, still wanna say it?

    I find disdain towards basic mobility by the able-bodied to be insulting to those that are handicapped. That's why you always hear about stories from previously impaired folks doing things most people don't have the mental fortitude to accomplish or overcoming those "obstacles" to go beyond what they were expected to be and instead be extraordinary.

    I respect Griff a great deal, but I just can't side with him on this one, or with anybody that agrees with him.

    Also, for fuck's sake, would everybody please stop taking things to extremes all the time? Just because some of us are pro-moving-around-more-often-than-not doesn't mean we're asking, or expecting all board members to become walking anatomy charts, or Greek statues. This should be clear, but is often missed: The human body would much rather be "pleasantly pudgy" from a survival stand-point, the body doesn't benefit worth a shit from being shredded, it's not a state in which it wants to be (hence why it's difficult to get there) so with that in mind, nobody, absolutely nobody should feel as though they HAVE to achieve such levels of lean-ness. Surely our culture has glorified that look and I'd be lying my ass off if I said I don't plan on being there sometime myself, but it's not a necessity for being a fit and healthy individual. You can be very healthy and fit and not have visible abs, etc. That's probably where your body wants to be ideally. It's where I find myself now, but I'm still working on being stronger and reducing body fat, both for performance and aesthetic purposes. It's completely fine if others don't share this desire, but if your life is impaired by something you can control (in this case, weight) and you're purposely not doing something about it, that I do take issue with, on principle.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteakNchop View Post
    Bodybuilders die early because

    1. Most of them take "steroids" (which are getting much more advanced than old time steroids)
    2. Most of them take HGH and/or deer antler spray
    3. They gain 30 lbs, then lose 20 lbs. Then they do that again.
    4. They take a lot of questionable supplements
    5. They're eating all these protein drinks with artificial sweeteners, etc.

    Body mass may have something to do with it, but certainly not most of it.
    Nope, big people die early. Sorry, it's just true. Excessively tall people die early, excessively fat people die early, excessively muscular people die early (it all has to do with excess, get it?). Same goes for excessively underweight or excessively short. Everything in moderation works. If a person is obese they are violating this rule. They are out of balance. Their health will suffer.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniQuity View Post
    Great point.

    Imagine yourself saying "I just don't really care for running, in fact I may never run again for any reason if I can help it."

    ... now imagine there's somebody in a wheelchair right next to you, still wanna say it?
    i find it ironic that griff was once confined to a wheel chair because of his weight. i would think he would be wanting to run and jump for joy not having to use it anymore
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  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by dboxing View Post
    Nope, big people die early. Sorry, it's just true. Excessively tall people die early, excessively fat people die early, excessively muscular people die early (it all has to do with excess, get it?). Same goes for excessively underweight or excessively short. Everything in moderation works. If a person is obese they are violating this rule. They are out of balance. Their health will suffer.
    This reminds me of an old roommate who was obese: she walked sort of bow-legged as a result, complained of her thighs rubbing together, and you could see the extra tissue effecting her biomechanics when you watched her move about. If she had attained the extra mass through coconut oil and pastured meat--with beautiful bloodwork--I can't that that would matter regarding at least this corner of her health. I think it is too much to say that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about excess adipose tissue in and of itself, as some people are sugggesting here. I would imagine the excess tissue is always stressful at some degree, no matter its origin and other health indicators; and the more excess tissue, the more stressful for the body.

    Also, doesn't fat tissue itself drive/create certain hormones? Can't remember what I am referring to, so someone help me out if this is correct. At the very least, there would be more leptin circulating. Theroretically, there exists some fat mass point where this leptin would be at a pathological level, right?

    Sure, overfat is just one health marker of many; and perhaps you are doing "pretty good" if you are overfat but everything else is in line. But I don't know how this is "healthy" any more than being slim with great bloodwork but for one low HDL score is "healthy" -- its probably, "pretty good" in the "could be worse" sort of way.

  6. #176
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    Why don't we all just go eat a pound of bacon and relax?
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  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by dboxing View Post
    What?! That is ridiculous! You truly believe that you are eating “healthy” if you are maintaining obesity? They are mutually exclusive. If whatever diet or lifestyle you choose does not reduce or prevent obesity, it is not healthy. Alcoholism is unhealthy, smoking is unhealthy, obesity is unhealthy. Regardless of the cause, acceptance of any of the foregoing as a choice is choosing to be unhealthy. Primal, I thought, was about being healthy.
    Smoking and drinking excessive alcohol are actions, just like overeating and choosing junk foods are actions. If you stop smoking, you're an ex-smoker. If you stop drinking, you're a recovering alcoholic. If you stop overeating and choosing junk foods, you have become a healthy, sensible eater. Being a healthy, sensible eater doesn't always equate to automatic weight loss, unfortunately. Fat loss can honestly be stubborn for a few of us obese primal people. And yes, I'm obese and consider myself a primal person living a healthy lifestyle. No, I don't look the part, but like a lot of things in life, looks can be deceiving.
    I'm retraining and strengthening my taste buds, one primal meal at a time.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by davem View Post
    Why don't we all just go eat a pound of bacon and relax?
    +1 hahaha
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  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
    Smoking and drinking excessive alcohol are actions, just like overeating and choosing junk foods are actions. If you stop smoking, you're an ex-smoker. If you stop drinking, you're a recovering alcoholic. If you stop overeating and choosing junk foods, you have become a healthy, sensible eater. Being a healthy, sensible eater doesn't always equate to automatic weight loss, unfortunately. Fat loss can honestly be stubborn for a few of us obese primal people. And yes, I'm obese and consider myself a primal person living a healthy lifestyle. No, I don't look the part, but like a lot of things in life, looks can be deceiving.
    I think that you are missing the controversy to this thread.

    I think everyone agrees that "Being a healthy, sensible eater doesn't always equate to automatic weight loss".

    The danger comes if people start believing that if they are unable to combat obesity with JUST sensible eating, then obesity is OK... Or worse that it is actually healthy to maintain that extra weight.

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waskydiver View Post
    I think that you are missing the controversy to this thread.

    I think everyone agrees that "Being a healthy, sensible eater doesn't always equate to automatic weight loss".

    The danger comes if people start believing that if they are unable to combat obesity with JUST sensible eating, then obesity is OK... Or worse that it is actually healthy to maintain that extra weight.
    Exactly. Griff is not willing to change his diet to go further on his fat loss journey and that's his right. Low carb got him part of the way. In comments all over this site Griff says it's all about the carbs if that were so he would still be losing.

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