RE: Help with Statin Data page

[jammies]

Hello everyone;

My 34 year old brother has mildly elevated total cholesterol and LDL (sorry, I don't know his HDL and triglycerides). His doctor want him on statins - of course.

My sister is a physician and is very, very pro-statin. We've been debating a bit the pros and cons. She feels there are no cons. I feel the pros are pretty limited in primary prevention.

But here is the thing - I have been going back to some of the primary literature to look at the actual numbers. I know it is very common around here to talk about how useless and dangerous they are. But when I look at the numbers, the seem pretty decent.

Don't get me wrong - I don't believe the lipid hypothesis and I realize that LDL alone is not a good predictor of heart disease. But that is a separate question than whether they work to prevent disease.

I am hoping some of you statin experts can help me understand the reality of whether statins are helpful in the prevention of cardiovascular disease.

Thank you!!

[MightyAl]

If he hasn't gotten a VAP test or a CRP then there is no conclusive data that he is at risk for heart disease. Find out whether the LDL is Pattern A or B and determine whether inflammation is an issue with a CRP. That will tell you how close he is to a heart attack. Statins have been proven to not make a difference for woman or men over 65 that have not had a previous heart attack. That makes a very narrow range of people that even need statins yet tons of people are on them. Read the side effects on statins. They are scary. Myopathy or muscle damage seems to be a very real side effect. I have seen it in most everyone I know that takes statins. There is also a danger of liver damage and depression. For the almost nonexistant benefits why would you want to even invite the possibility of those side effects.

Statins have not been proven to prevent heart disease so why bother. It does lower cholesterol but then you are basing that as a benefit of the lipid hypothesis which is a completely false correlation of high cholesterol to heart disease.

[jammies]

Statins have been proven to not make a difference for woman or men over 65 that have not had a previous heart attack. That makes a very narrow range of people that even need statins yet tons of people are on them. .

Would you mind sharing where you get this info from - because when I look at the studies there is a protective benefit. It is a decrease is cardiovascular events and in morbidity associated with CVD. No change in all cause mortality.

I am encouraging my brother to get further testing. However, he is quite overweight and carries a lot of abdominal fat. We also have a strong family history of stroke and heart disease - so I wouldn't be very surprised if he does have a bad lipid pattern.

Thanks!!

[janie]

Mighty Al is indeed correct. I got off of statins last year., initially concerned about some muscle weakness. I did a ton of reading first including both of Gary Taubes books as well as "The Cholesterol Delusion"by Ernest N. Curtis, M.D.; "Fat & Cholesterol are Good for You"by Uffe Ravnskov, M.D.; "Deep Nutrition"by Catherine Shanahan, M.D. and "Statin Drugs Side Effects & the Misguided War on Cholesterol" by Duane Graveline, M.D. among others. I also read tons of info online. I did not do this lightly and only after also having a VAP and C-RP test done. My results were excellent. My LDL (while elevated by CW standards) was pattern A which is NOT implicated in heart disease (pattern A =large bouyant non threatening particles as opposed to pattern B of the small, sticky and perhaps dangerous variety). My ratios were also excellent (you need the full panel,(i.e. TC, LDL, HDL & tryglycerides to work out ratio #s). I had also done myself the favor of eating low carb for the last 2+ years during which my HDL (the good stuff) went UP and the trigs (bad) went DOWN. Perhaps your brother should consider primal dietary changes first before putting statin poison in his body. I'm sure your sister means well, but most docs today get their cholesterol med info from the drug rep.

[js290]

JNRBM | Abstract | No connection between the level of exposition to statins in the population and the incidence/mortality of acute myocardial infarction: An ecological study based on Sweden's municipalities.

[pdovers]

I can't speak for myself as no matter how overweight I ever was my cholesterol was never high. My doctor referred to it as a genetic gift. However, my husband had high cholesterol for years and was put on statins. This was before I met him and he was eating out or eating precessed boxed food that you heat up in the microwave. After we married (a year ago) he was no longer eating that crap. I actually would not allow him to even bring that crap into our house. He ate whole foods that I cooked and I taught him how to read labels and what to stay away from. He stopped taking the statins because he was noticing muscle weakness and was reading all of the bad press about them. Just a few weeks ago he had his annual checkup and for the first time he can remember in his adult life his cholesterol was normal. He has not lost any weight. He is only about 25-30 pounds overweight. He is not getting a lot of exercise. But he has been eating REAL food for a year now and it has made all the difference.

[tfarny]

If there is no significant difference in "all-cause mortality", then then they don't save lives, even according to what you are citing. It means that statins lower heart attack risk slightly while slightly increasing stroke and cancer incidence.
Of all the ways to go out, a heart attack (at a ripe old age ideally) would be among the best. Preferably induced by too-crazy sex of course or skydiving.