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Thread: Primal Fittness for a 100 mile run page

  1. #1
    ironteeth's Avatar
    ironteeth is offline Junior Member
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    Primal Fittness for a 100 mile run

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    Hi

    I have been living a paleo type lifestyle for the past couple of years diet wise, I hunt and eat mostly home prepared venison and home grown veg/eggs. On top of this I have completed 5 ironman races in the past 2 1/2 years but now find the sport too sciency and hyped up. This year I completed a 55mile trail run in 11 hours and the whole event was much more chilled-out.
    I have got another 100 mile run in October and thought I would use the Primal Blueprint template. I know the runs(indicated by numbers) are long but I rarely go anywhere near 75% max HR. The lift heavy things and sprints are straight out of the guide.

    Here is the cunning plan:

    Week Mon Tues Wed Thur Fri Sat Sun
    9 Sprint 3 Swim/weights 3 Weights 9 Trail Bike
    10 Sprint 7 Swim/weights 3 Weights 31 Trail Bike
    11 Sprint 5 Swim/weights 7 Weights 14 Trail Bike
    12 Sprint 7 Swim/weights 7 Weights 24 Trail Bike
    13 Sprint 7 Swim/weights 7 Weights 18 Trail Bike
    14 Sprint 5 Swim/weights 7 Weights 14 Trail Bike
    15 Sprint 5 Swim/weights 3 Weights 50 Trail Bike
    16 Sprint 6 Swim/weights 6 Weights 14 Trail Bike
    17 Sprint 7 Swim/weights 7 Weights 24 Trail Bike
    18 Sprint 5 Swim/weights 7 Weights 18 Trail Bike
    19 Sprint 5 Swim/weights 7 Weights 10 Trail Bike
    20 Sprint Rest Swim/weights Rest Weights Race100 Bike

    The reason it starts at week 9 is that I did Ironman Regensburg in Germany last week in 11:51. If I complete this 100miler it should give me enough points to do the Ultra trail Mont Blanc in France.
    Any tips or feedback on this plan would be welcome.

    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by ironteeth; 08-11-2011 at 12:35 AM.

  2. #2
    davem's Avatar
    davem is offline Senior Member
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    I have 0 feedback, but I'm going to watch this, as I have decided an Ironman is my (current) ultimate fitness goal.
    My Fitday public journal.
    Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
    Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
    Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

  3. #3
    Karma's Avatar
    Karma is offline Senior Member
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    Mark,

    Many folks (including Mark Sisson) will tell you that 100 mile running and primal living are mutually exclusive lifestyles and there is some truth to that. You will need to make some concessions in order to fuel your body and train adequately for going that long. I reccomend you read the Joe Friel book "Paleo diet for athletes" as it has a lot to say about creating a hybrid plan if you wish to be paleo and go long.

    Its a bit cconfusing to read your plan. Be careful ramping up too soon after IM Regensburg. (that race is on my to do list as well)

    Are you getting your back to back days in (Sat21/Sun11) or some variation of that or are you trying to do a 100 miler without long runs to stay "primal"? You will find that doing too much sprinting will be detremental to going long. Doing 50K-50Mi you can get away with reduced LSD and more speed work but it will bite you in the ass if you plan to use the same method when shooting for 100 miles.You need to build that base to go 100 miles, there is no shortcut when we are talking 20-30 hours on your feet.

    Power/weight ratios make a difference when you go long, as you know from IM training. The same applies to running. Doing a lot of weights and building muscle mass will slow you down. How many ultra-runners do you see who are jacked? Pretty much none. There's a reason.

    Since you have done a few IM races you know that an IM is not just 2XHIM. Same goes for ultras. the 100miler is not just twice your 55 miler. You hit several walls after the 12 hour mark on an ultra and I would reccomend working in a 20 minute nap about 18 hours in during your first attempt at 100.

    You should be running 5-6 days a week (3-4 of those on trails), swimming for recovery and biking for fun (a brick run afterwards of course). For anything over 50K I suggest you do some back to back run days in there. Day two is 50% of day one volume. Up to 50K or early in your periodization you can do long bikes on the weekend and slip in a long run mid-week to ease the burden on your body. 10 weeks out from your 100 you should be up to back-to-backs on your runs and not doing a lot of cycling. Like in your tri training you need to rest and recover from time to time. You will know your best cycle. I find with ultra running it helps most folks to have two work weeks and a third back-off week rather than a tradition 3-up/1-down periodization.

    If you have any specific questions let me know, I've been coaching primal athletes for a while with some good success at IM racing and ultra running too.

    Cheers,

    Dave

  4. #4
    Karma's Avatar
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    Oh, and pick up a copy of the book "Running through the Wall" by neal jamison. Lots of great tid-bits in there from some of the best ultra-runners today.

  5. #5
    ironteeth's Avatar
    ironteeth is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Dave

    Thanks for the feedback.Sorry about the training table the forum wont accept the format grid well. In essence I am trying to see how little running I can get away with to avoid overuse injury/stress.
    I know from the 55miler that a stong core is vital so weight training is body weight excercises like pushups and planks etc as per Marks e book, I have never really been able to put muscle bulk on even when I tried.
    Nutrition wise I wrap my endurance training in carbs such a boiled potatoes and rice cakes (white rice, bacon and scrambled egg) and use gels sparingly.
    Finally I run about 1/2 mile across the fields barefoot everyday with my dogs to strengthen my feet and this works really well.
    I,ll keep you posted as to progress
    ATB

    Mark

  6. #6
    Karma's Avatar
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    Here are some resources for you to look into when seeking a balance between training enough and training too much. Granted, none of these guys are are primal although Lyle McDonald is pretty close.

    When/if it stops being fun, re-evaluate. If you do the back to backs on weekends I suggest an off day on Friday AND Monday. Perhaps a recovery swim but NOTHING that pushes your legs.

    Cheers,

    Over-Reaching versus Over-Training: Gaining the Benefits, but Avoiding the Pitfalls

    How to Tell When You're Over-Reaching or Over-Training | Active.com

    Overtraining, Overreaching and all the Rest Part 1 | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

    How to benefit from Planned Overtraining

  7. #7
    Karma's Avatar
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    Just ran/raced the trail from Happy Isles to the top of Half-dome this Saturday with my race club. 2 hours 20 minutes to the base of the cables. Flew up the cables with my newfound primal upper body strength. All on two Lara Bars and two GU rocktane gels. Breakfast was a recovery shake (300 kcals), a banana, cup of coffee and a big handful of trail mix. Of course when we got back I ate about a pound each of chicken and tri tip steak with a big salad, two sweet potatoes and a bottle of pear cider. What a day! I am just today getting back to walking with a "normal" stride, the run really toasted my legs. Ready to do it again this weekend, except this time it will be 2 miles less with about half the elevation gain up in the Tahoe National Forest. Going long and being primal takes a lot of flexibility and compromise but for me it is worth the enjoyment I get out of it.

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