Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Supplement Science page

  1. #1
    jpdhouston's Avatar
    jpdhouston is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1

    Post Supplement Science

    Primal Fuel
    I believe that it is a given that there probably does not exist a field more overrun with misinformation and 'snake oil' salesmen than supplementation. As a new investigator of Primal, I have some questions that seem to have a different answer depending whose particular axe is being ground:

    1. Have there been any definitive (read scientific, double-blind, peer-reviewed) progress adressing the values/benefits/detriments of vitamin mega-dosing? In particular, vitamins C, D and E? Please comment.

    2. While medical literature seems to be rife with confirmation of the value of fish oil supplementation, what appears to be less settled is a consistent rationale regarding proper dosage.

    2.1 Primal's dosage of of 900 mg EPA and 600 DHA (a typically common 3:2 EPAHA ratio) does not seem to address the mounting research that indicates a 1:1 ratio to be more beneficial. Please comment.

    2.2 Primal's dosage appears to include no minimal Omega-6 GLA. Please comment.

    2.3 Primal's dosage appears to suffer from a problem for which I have yet to receive an adequate answer from several supplement purveyors -- no consideration of the individual user. It does not seem reasonable that the fish oil requirements of a wispy-lean 110 pound, 5' 4" young woman (10% body fat) would be the same as a hulking 320 pound, 6' 4" (8% body fat) catch wrestler or for that matter a lumbering 320 pound, 6' 4" (40% body fat) coach potato. Some do state a dosage based upon body weight, but do not address the effect of differing body fats on the recommended dosage -- how can it be the same? Does the fat in one's body also require fish oil?! Please comment.

    2.4 As a consequence of 1 and 2.3 above, it has been promulgated that excess vitamins are of no real use and are basicallly excreted in the urine and therefore of no apparent real effectiveness. Is excess fish oil supplementation subject to the same constraints? Please comment.

    Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.

  2. #2
    DFH's Avatar
    DFH
    DFH is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    1,779
    I would suggest that you will never get an answer you like, so make your best decision and do your best.

    I work with my dr on which supplement and what dose. Not everyone gets to. My health got better, and that is what matters to me, not "proof."

    You can use the "scientific, double-blind, peer-reviewed" excuse to never do anything. If you wait for that kind of proof, you will be waiting 40 years.

  3. #3
    JKC's Avatar
    JKC
    JKC is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    1,026
    Regarding Omega 6`s, pretty much everyone has no trouble getting enough O6 in their diet and so you don`t need supplementation of it.

    Regarding vitamin D - just my experience, but having the RDA of vitamin D never got me more than just above the deficiency level. A supplementation of 4000 IU has been one supplementation that has made a huge difference. There is a place called the vitamin D council that you might check out to learn what they have to say.

    I can`t speak about primal itself, because I haven`t used it, but considering the depletion of vitamins and minerals in the soil that plants are grown in (and the depletion passed on to the animals through said depletion) It seems prudent to have some supplementation, in my opinion.
    Karin

    A joyful heart is good medicine

    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot

    Mmmmm. Real food is good.

    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29685.html

  4. #4
    Apex Predator's Avatar
    Apex Predator is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,355
    I only use supplements that I can identify I am not getting, and can see results from.

  5. #5
    Littlesigh's Avatar
    Littlesigh is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Thule Greenland (76N 68W)
    Posts
    191
    Try the PLOS website Public Library of Science for research, then look into iTunes, I have found some video chats regarding supplements there that are forth coming with some research results. Also you might want to join Consumer Labs ConsumerLab.com - independent tests and reviews of vitamin, mineral, and herbal supplements They offer test results and comparisons on different brands. Bottom line like mentioned above you are not going to find anyone doing this deep of research becasue the money is not there! But soon the money will be there to make sure you pay out the nose for any vitamins you do want if the FDA and the big Pharma get their way..just look at Europe!
    Granted most vitamins can be gained through proper nutrition, doesn't mean a liitle help isn't needed. Placebo effect impacts our lives more than we think!

    Good luck!
    Living the dream, inside a myth

  6. #6
    Kristy2078's Avatar
    Kristy2078 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by jpdhouston View Post
    1. Have there been any definitive (read scientific, double-blind, peer-reviewed) progress adressing the values/benefits/detriments of vitamin mega-dosing? In particular, vitamins C, D and E? Please comment.

    2.3 Primal's dosage appears to suffer from a problem for which I have yet to receive an adequate answer from several supplement purveyors -- no consideration of the individual user. It does not seem reasonable that the fish oil requirements of a wispy-lean 110 pound, 5' 4" young woman (10% body fat) would be the same as a hulking 320 pound, 6' 4" (8% body fat) catch wrestler or for that matter a lumbering 320 pound, 6' 4" (40% body fat) coach potato. Some do state a dosage based upon body weight, but do not address the effect of differing body fats on the recommended dosage -- how can it be the same? Does the fat in one's body also require fish oil?! Please comment.
    1. I don't think that many members here are megadosing on vitamins/minerals--maybe just one or two. Maybe you should go ask Tom Cruise.

    2.3 The recommended dosage is just a specific dosage, probably for the average user. If you need more, you can use more. It takes trial and error to find how much an individual needs. I think it might be a minimal dose for a healthy athletic average-height adult with room to allow for more.

  7. #7
    davem's Avatar
    davem is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,258
    Please comment?

    Comment: Do use google to find the research you expect, but realize that there isn't a lot of good science, and a lot of the results a person would have is individual specific.

    Suggestion: Focus less on exact data, and go by common sense, if something is working and you have physical results, that may have more relevant, actionable value than something found in the PLOS (which is a nice project, but not the go to for top tier research.).
    My Fitday public journal.
    Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
    Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
    Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

  8. #8
    RitaRose's Avatar
    RitaRose is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    3,952
    Everyone is different, so...

    shrugs
    My sorely neglected blog - http://ThatWriterBroad.com

  9. #9
    healthseekerKate's Avatar
    healthseekerKate is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    440
    Keep in mind that the definition of 'megadosing' changes depending on whom you consult. A purported 'megadose' according to conventional wisdom, can sometimes be an *optimal* dose when you look at the supporting science.

    Also, keep in mind that a lot of published scientific studies aren't useful. In nutrition science, studies sometimes/often test far too small doses (compared to their commonly-regarded useful dosages), and then conclude that the supplement doesn't have any effect or value...

  10. #10
    DFH's Avatar
    DFH
    DFH is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    1,779
    Quote Originally Posted by healthseekerKate View Post
    Keep in mind that the definition of 'megadosing' changes depending on whom you consult. A purported 'megadose' according to conventional wisdom, can sometimes be an *optimal* dose when you look at the supporting science.

    Also, keep in mind that a lot of published scientific studies aren't useful. In nutrition science, studies sometimes/often test far too small doses (compared to their commonly-regarded useful dosages), and then conclude that the supplement doesn't have any effect or value...
    Yep.

    In addition, there is not a lot of money to study something as simple as a supplement. What would be the profit in that? Money for studies goes for things that can be patented or at least controlled in some way. There are already people trying to make it harder to buy omega 3 fishoils to force you to buy an omega 3 pill at many times the price.

    It cracks me up when people say "I can't do vitamin whatever, it's not proven in a study" when this is not really on the study agenda. Don't expect answers if hardly anyone is investigating the question.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •