Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 98

Thread: Anything to the Serotonin Diet or BS? page 3

  1. #21
    FairyRae's Avatar
    FairyRae is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,996
    Primal Fuel
    http://www.honey.com/images/downloads/carb.pdf
    In most
    honeys, fructose
    predominates and tends to
    make honey taste slightly
    sweeter than sugar. Some
    honeys which are very rich
    in fructose tend to taste
    very sweet, but there are a
    few types of honeys which
    contain more glucose than
    fructose.
    If this is the case, I wonder why honey would be any more effective than fruit? I've read lots about starch (glucose) being useful for raising serotonin (as per Potatoes Not Prozac, etc.). But if honey has more fructose than glucose it doesn't make sense to me that it would be better than fruit. (But if it is working for you, no reason not to stick with it of course!) Do you have a link specifically about using honey to raise serotonin? I'm just really interested in all this! (I feel I do best eating low starch, but feel good eating fruits (fructose). The serotonin stuff has been really useful for me in terms of healing from ED issues, so this is all right up my ally.)

    This whole honey thing is also in line w/ the GAPS diet which may be helpful to others here (thinking about my buddy Horsewoman. )

    Keep sharing please!
    My Before/After Pics
    Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

    "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

  2. #22
    Horsewoman's Avatar
    Horsewoman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,510
    Quote Originally Posted by wildwabbit View Post
    If you are eating primal/paleo properly you shouldn't be getting sugar cravings.
    If your carb intake has increased enough to cause cravings, then I think you are not doing any kind of paleo/primal. Here this means a conflict between Serotonin and Primal/Paleo diets.
    That is simply not true. My sugar cravings increased, as well as depression, on paleo, because going low carb reduced my serotonin level. No fruit, no starches whole30 had me struggling to even get out of bed and wishing I was dead, as well as very strong cravings. Not all our bodies are the same.

    The idea behind the Serotonin Diet, and Potatoes not Prozac, is that eating carbs changes the proportion of tryptophan in the blood trelative to other aminos and so more trp gets into the brain hence serotonin is raised. Wurtmabn's research has shown that a proteiny meal without carbs means proportionally less trp in the blood, whereas carbs with the meal keep the trp ration higher. Eating carbs on their own triggers an insulin release which causes the preferred aminos for muscle to be taken up, leaving trp behind to preferentially get across the blood-brain barrier, hence raising serotonin. It's not about eating high carb, in fact it is vital to eat the carb 2-4 hrs after a good protein meal, otherwise the aminos won't be there in the first place. I don't have the links handy but if you look up Judith Wurtman's research there's lots of good stuff out there.

    The question for me is, if paleo is our natural diet why do so many of us have this issue? I wonder if epigenetics are a factor. If our grandparents and parents etc grew up eating high carb, then maybe our gene expression has been adjusted for that to avpid our serotonin level being unnaturally high, or to downregulate receptors to adjust for high serotonin. Then we were fed high carb from a few weeks after birth (unless you were a very lucky baby). Can it be reversed? I have been paleo for a year now and not been able to do it but I am still hoping I can tweak things and find a way to stick to low starch and sugar (I need to now anyway to treat ankylosing spondylitis), and maybe if I can do it longer term my body and brain will adjust and the low carb induced depression will lift. In Potatoes not Prozac, she talks about how endorphin receptors are down regulated in responses to endorphin spiking from eating sugar, so when you go off sugar you feel flat for about 6 months until you readjust and upregulate. Maybe it can work the same with serotonin.

    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
    http://www.honey.com/images/downloads/carb.pdf


    If this is the case, I wonder why honey would be any more effective than fruit? I've read lots about starch (glucose) being useful for raising serotonin (as per Potatoes Not Prozac, etc.). But if honey has more fructose than glucose it doesn't make sense to me that it would be better than fruit. (But if it is working for you, no reason not to stick with it of course!) Do you have a link specifically about using honey to raise serotonin? I'm just really interested in all this! (I feel I do best eating low starch, but feel good eating fruits (fructose). The serotonin stuff has been really useful for me in terms of healing from ED issues, so this is all right up my ally.)

    This whole honey thing is also in line w/ the GAPS diet which may be helpful to others here (thinking about my buddy Horsewoman. )

    Keep sharing please!
    Thanks for thinking of me. Interesting thread. Starch is definately more effective for me, although having read the low starch diet book I now wonder if that is partly because low starch makes me feel bad due to die off. I am back from my holiday just today, have read the IBS/ AS low starch diet book and have chicken roasting in the oven, broth defrosting, ready to start a GAPs/ SCD/ low starch 3 day intro tomorrow. Eeeek!

    I was thinking of trying timed fruit or honey once I've done intro, so this thread is useful. I am just hoping I can stick to it, now I know that the joint pain is a potentially serious condition maybe that'll give me a kick, but still, I need to at least be able to ameliorate cravings and avoid the depth of depression I went into whilst on LC paleo.
    Last edited by Horsewoman; 08-06-2011 at 10:25 AM.
    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
    Harold Whitman

  3. #23
    FairyRae's Avatar
    FairyRae is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,996
    Quote Originally Posted by Horsewoman View Post
    The question for me is, if paleo is our natural diet why do so many of us have this issue?
    There is a lot of research out there stating that paleolithic folks did not necessarily eat a low carb diet. Evidence that we ate starch (we produce amylase to break down starch etc), and many believe we evolved in a tropical climate (more fruit and starch proponents there). Stuff like the work of the Jaminets (Perfect Health Diet) is quite convincing as well as far as the inclusion of starch/carbs as being optimal for human beings.

    I do think that most of us modern folk, growing up w/ generational nutrient deficiencies and eating crappy diets most of our lives have a lot more stacked against us. That may be why some of us need to tweak and find the right formulas for ourselves, vs. it just feeling super easy once we go primal/paleo. I think if we were born optimal (parents, grandparents, great grandparents had optimal diets and health yadda yadda) and also ate real food for all of our lives, it wouldn't be such a big deal and we'd probably be better able to adapt to higher carb or lower carb variations. But, because many of us are in such a shitty stage healthwise, and our health issues vary per person, maybe that is why some need to tweak things so much? I know some folks do fabulously on VLC, while others struggle and feel awful and just need more carbs to function (mentally, emotionally, physically). All fascinating stuff really...

    Thanks for thinking of me. Interesting thread. Starch is definately more effective for me, although having read the low starch diet book I now wonder if that is partly because low starch makes me feel bad due to die off. I am back from my holiday just today, have read the IBS/ AS low starch diet book and have chicken roasting in the oven, broth defrosting, ready to start a GAPs/ SCD/ low starch 3 day intro tomorrow. Eeeek!

    I was thinking of trying timed fruit or honey once I've done intro, so this thread is useful. I am just hoping I can stick to it, now I know that the joint pain is a potentially serious condition maybe that'll give me a kick, but still, I need to at least be able to ameliorate cravings and avoid the depth of depression I went into whilst on LC paleo.
    Good luck!!!! Please keep us posted! I'm so interested to see how this all works for you!!
    My Before/After Pics
    Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

    "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

  4. #24
    Horsewoman's Avatar
    Horsewoman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,510
    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
    There is a lot of research out there stating that paleolithic folks did not necessarily eat a low carb diet. Evidence that we ate starch (we produce amylase to break down starch etc), and many believe we evolved in a tropical climate (more fruit and starch proponents there). Stuff like the work of the Jaminets (Perfect Health Diet) is quite convincing as well as far as the inclusion of starch/carbs as being optimal for human beings.

    I do think that most of us modern folk, growing up w/ generational nutrient deficiencies and eating crappy diets most of our lives have a lot more stacked against us. That may be why some of us need to tweak and find the right formulas for ourselves, vs. it just feeling super easy once we go primal/paleo. I think if we were born optimal (parents, grandparents, great grandparents had optimal diets and health yadda yadda) and also ate real food for all of our lives, it wouldn't be such a big deal and we'd probably be better able to adapt to higher carb or lower carb variations. But, because many of us are in such a shitty stage healthwise, and our health issues vary per person, maybe that is why some need to tweak things so much? I know some folks do fabulously on VLC, while others struggle and feel awful and just need more carbs to function (mentally, emotionally, physically). All fascinating stuff really...



    Good luck!!!! Please keep us posted! I'm so interested to see how this all works for you!!
    Thanks . I was very convinced by PHD and so on, after the experience I had with LC. But now I am sure I need to go low starch for some time, maybe permanently, so will have to find a way to do it without turning into the evil bitch from hell! Have already warned my husband though!!
    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
    Harold Whitman

  5. #25
    FairyRae's Avatar
    FairyRae is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,996
    Quote Originally Posted by Horsewoman View Post
    Thanks . I was very convinced by PHD and so on, after the experience I had with LC. But now I am sure I need to go low starch for some time, maybe permanently, so will have to find a way to do it without turning into the evil bitch from hell! Have already warned my husband though!!
    I actually wrote to Paul Jaminet asking about doing better w/ fruit and sugary veg (think onions, carrots) instead of starch (potatoes/sweet potatoes etc). He basically said if you feel better fueled by sugar (from fruits/veg) than go for it--I think the important aspect was getting enough of those (paleo) carbs to fill glucose stores, avoiding extra work for the liver. Wonder if that will work the same for you going low starch? I've never gotten the blues or low energy when eating 100-150g carbs from fruit and veg (no starch) personally, and actually feel optimal when eating that way. But I know we are all different....

    ETA: This is what he said:
    People do vary in their response to foods for reasons that we don't fully understand. Usually food intolerances are fixable problems, but it can take a while to sort them out. In the meantime it's good to experiment to find foods that work for you.

    If sugars work better for you than starches, then beets, onions, and carrots may be a little more calorie rich.
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post399737

    I HOPE this works for you!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by FairyRae; 08-06-2011 at 11:37 AM.
    My Before/After Pics
    Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

    "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

  6. #26
    Horsewoman's Avatar
    Horsewoman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,510
    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
    I actually wrote to Paul Jaminet asking about doing better w/ fruit and sugary veg (think onions, carrots) instead of starch (potatoes/sweet potatoes etc). He basically said if you feel better fueled by sugar (from fruits/veg) than go for it--I think the important aspect was getting enough of those (paleo) carbs to fill glucose stores, avoiding extra work for the liver. Wonder if that will work the same for you going low starch? I've never gotten the blues or low energy when eating 100-150g carbs from fruit and veg (no starch) personally, and actually feel optimal when eating that way. But I know we are all different....

    ETA: This is what he said:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post399737

    I HOPE this works for you!!!!!!!!
    Thanks. The problem I have is that starches work way better for me than anything else, except that they feed the Klebsiella that causes the autoimmune problem that's affecting my joints. Otherwise, I wouldn't even dream of cutting starches lol.
    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
    Harold Whitman

  7. #27
    FairyRae's Avatar
    FairyRae is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,996
    Well, glad you figured out why you've been straddling the point of this double edged sword! (No starches, depression/Yes starches, joint pain). I really really hope you'll find a way to beat the depression w/out the starches!!!
    My Before/After Pics
    Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

    "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

  8. #28
    Leida's Avatar
    Leida is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,783
    My only source on having to use the sugar, rather than fructose from fruit is the book I have already quoted. They explain that fructose IS diffrent, and I did not have any moderation with fruit. In fact, that bit of honey controls my fruit cravings.

    BTW, still going strong on 1 tbsp of honey a day. Absolutely no desire to have anything sweet after dinner. I dropped the second lick of honey, and just have a cup or two of fruit with my folks, enjoying it instead of devoring it. My weight - and it's all fat (holy cow!) is dropping so fast (for me) that I had to add an extra meal on Sunday to stop losing for a couple of weeks, and let the muscule to build up. I am at 18% BF again, but 122 lbs, not 117 lbs like last time, still 100 lbs LBM, and I am worried that I will start dropping muscule again. So, will try to hold at 122 lbs for a couple-three weeks, and not drop any lower.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

  9. #29
    Horsewoman's Avatar
    Horsewoman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    My only source on having to use the sugar, rather than fructose from fruit is the book I have already quoted. They explain that fructose IS diffrent, and I did not have any moderation with fruit. In fact, that bit of honey controls my fruit cravings.

    BTW, still going strong on 1 tbsp of honey a day. Absolutely no desire to have anything sweet after dinner. I dropped the second lick of honey, and just have a cup or two of fruit with my folks, enjoying it instead of devoring it. My weight - and it's all fat (holy cow!) is dropping so fast (for me) that I had to add an extra meal on Sunday to stop losing for a couple of weeks, and let the muscule to build up. I am at 18% BF again, but 122 lbs, not 117 lbs like last time, still 100 lbs LBM, and I am worried that I will start dropping muscule again. So, will try to hold at 122 lbs for a couple-three weeks, and not drop any lower.
    Sounds great. I think I am going to try this, with the 3 hrs after a protein meal timing like Potatoes not Prozac, since that's worked so well for me before.
    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
    Harold Whitman

  10. #30
    Leida's Avatar
    Leida is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,783
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Let me know if it works for you. And, yes, the timing is the same here: ~ 3 hours after protein/fat containing lunch.

    Basically, honey with herbal tea was the only thing on their list that was primal. The one I am using is organic unpasterized honey, it does not say which flowers specifically it was collected from. Back in the old country you could buy hiney from every plant in existence. If we go for a trip next year, I am going to buy a bit of lynden honey.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •