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  1. #1
    chia's Avatar
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    Forks over Knives...

    Primal Fuel
    oh great...another vegetarian plan..! I'm having an argument with another about this plan and it's hard to argue when a man on Dr. Oz had all of his harmful indicators of health improve as well as fat loss. His health, for now, or apparently, is amazing due to radically changing his diet.

    I suppose, if someone ate VERY unhealthy...any change adding more produce of course will be beneficial but this diet is lots of legumes etc...thoughts, comments on how to argue or debate?

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    IcarianVX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chia View Post

    I suppose, if someone ate VERY unhealthy...any change adding more produce of course will be beneficial....
    This is the reason. Going from complete crap to real foods (regardless of macro breakdowns) will always improve "the numbers" and body-fat content. It's the long term effects of which real foods that you eat that should be the main point of the argument.

    It's like the 14 threads about juicing that have shown up recently. Yes, a couple of fat guys lost some serious weight while juicing and continuing to eat in a vegetarian lifestyle. Cross (the Australian guy that made the movie) looks fairly healthy with clothes on. The 2nd guy, while he did an incredible job of losing weight, still looks like shit and, IMO, he looks like he is sick. But, he is sticking with what works for him. The only person that I know that has ever excelled at being vegetarian/juicitarian is Jay Kordich. But one person's story doesn't exactly correlate to everyone in the world.

    I would focus on the long term effects of vegetarian/vegan diets on the person. You could even bring up the whole mono-culture thing (growing the same damned plant over and over again, killing the soil) and how grazing animals are used in 3rd world countries to "fix" land that has been raped by farmers. There is the whole evolutionary point to argue and vitamin/mineral deficiencies associated with long term veggie/grain only eating.
    People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

  3. #3
    chia's Avatar
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    yes, that's what i said to him. LONG term, VS SHORT term. Naturally, if one eliminates much of the nutrient dead foods they WERE consuming, and added LIVE, fresh foods...things can only improve...BUT, consuming so many beans as a protein source...and whole grains??.... LONG term, for the majority of people?... this sounds like a recipe for disaster.....

    I love your quote on the bottom, by the way...it's so very true...we should only want GOOD for others...encouraging...applauding their prosperity or joys...we get what we put out there...garbage in, garbage out....

    thanks for your thoughts.... hope to hear more so that others can dismiss this diet...Bill Maher had the author on the other day as well...

  4. #4
    Captain Archer's Avatar
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    I tried the vegetarian/vegan diet when I was 16 years old. I lost a good amount of weight only to regain it back and then some when I got off that diet. For me I need a lifestyle not a simple diet to fix my body. I agree long term effects outweigh any short term effects.

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    strom's Avatar
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    Stir frys! You don't need knifes when the food is cut up into pieces at prep time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strom View Post
    Stir frys! You don't need knifes when the food is cut up into pieces at prep time.
    I can kill whatever I need to eat with a fork just as well as a knife. It might take longer, but it just makes me hungrier and I will appreciate the food more.

    Isn't Bill Maher a raw foodie too?
    People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

  7. #7
    chia's Avatar
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    I believe the forks over knives is supposed to mean eating food to heal instead of using a knife.. (scalpel) as in heart surgery.... very clever... ;-) not sure if Bill is a raw foodie or not....I wonder.....

  8. #8
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcarianVX View Post
    This is the reason. Going from complete crap to real foods (regardless of macro breakdowns) will always improve "the numbers" and body-fat content. It's the long term effects of which real foods that you eat that should be the main point of the argument.

    It's like the 14 threads about juicing that have shown up recently. Yes, a couple of fat guys lost some serious weight while juicing and continuing to eat in a vegetarian lifestyle. Cross (the Australian guy that made the movie) looks fairly healthy with clothes on. The 2nd guy, while he did an incredible job of losing weight, still looks like shit and, IMO, he looks like he is sick. But, he is sticking with what works for him. The only person that I know that has ever excelled at being vegetarian/juicitarian is Jay Kordich. But one person's story doesn't exactly correlate to everyone in the world.
    .
    The juicing documentary was NOT about going vegan for life. It was about a temporary clean out/re-boot of really effed up digestive systems. For that it works. Nowhere in that film or on Cross' website do they advocate vegetarian or vegan eating on a permanent basis. They just said that getting more veggies and fruits into people who live on KFC and fries is a good thing. I don't know how you could say that a person who, when he started could barely walk and by the end of the film was playing football with his kid "looks like shit".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    The juicing documentary was NOT about going vegan for life. It was about a temporary clean out/re-boot of really effed up digestive systems. For that it works. Nowhere in that film or on Cross' website do they advocate vegetarian or vegan eating on a permanent basis. They just said that getting more veggies and fruits into people who live on KFC and fries is a good thing. I don't know how you could say that a person who, when he started could barely walk and by the end of the film was playing football with his kid "looks like shit".
    Ok, I get your point. He still looks "unhealthy" to me. It's a matter of opinion and I just use harsher language than most. And just because he could barely walk in the beginning and can now run and throw a football doesn't mean he doesn't look bad. John Madden can throw a football and he looks like a blob of chewed bubble gum.

    I really liked the movie and the message that it brought. I thought Cross was still a vegetarian. My bad.
    I would promote being a vegetarian over eating processed crap any day. If you don't want to eat meat, fine, then don't (not you, the vegetarians).
    People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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