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    tomewer's Avatar
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    Losing Fat/Gaining Muscle/Protein Intake Question

    Primal Fuel
    Hello all,

    I am looking to acheive the holy grail - to lose fat and gain muscle

    Mark recommends a protein intake of between 0.7 to 1 grams of protein per pound of lean mass, as you no doubt know.

    Two questions - if I am looking to gain muscle, should I aim for 1 gram, or look to overshoot? If I do overshoot, assuming that I am still under my BMR calorie amount, the excess protein will just be used for energy, no? I'd rather overcompensate and make sure I'm getting more than enough protein, than undershoot and not provide my body with enough energy to build muscle.

    Thanks!

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    1 - 1.25g per # lean mass seems to be doing the job for me. Experiment.

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    There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

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    For a typical sized guy, you can probably put on plenty of muscle averaging a pound of meat per day and not stress too much on the particular macro ratios. I think once you are over a certain amount of protein, adding muscle mass is more about total calories - you can't add one pound of muscle a day, so eating two pounds of protein every day just doesn't seem logical or fun in the long run.
    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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    I agree with tfany that it doesn't take astronomical protein intake to build muscle, but more wouldn't hurt and might be helpful. Also: Leangains. Google it! It's a program for exactly what you're trying to do.

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    0.7g per pound of lean body mass is plenty to add muscle.

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    I tend to over shoot 1g per lb daily. I'm probably closer to 1.5g per lb of lean mass at the max though. I'd also recommend focusing on either losing fat or gaining muscle and not both at the same time. When you are wanting to loose weight working out will help prevent muscle loss, but muscle gains will be minimal at best because you aren't eating enough to fuel your muscle growth. If you're trying to fuel gain muscle (I mean eating clean and not fulking) fat loss is going to be difficult. There is a balance point on gaining muscle and not fat but trying both at the same time is likely to lead to no progress in either direction.
    That said if you've not strength trained before then you'll have a lot of untapped muscle potential in the beginning that will give you some quick gains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemonized View Post
    I tend to over shoot 1g per lb daily. I'm probably closer to 1.5g per lb of lean mass at the max though. I'd also recommend focusing on either losing fat or gaining muscle and not both at the same time. When you are wanting to loose weight working out will help prevent muscle loss, but muscle gains will be minimal at best because you aren't eating enough to fuel your muscle growth. If you're trying to fuel gain muscle (I mean eating clean and not fulking) fat loss is going to be difficult. There is a balance point on gaining muscle and not fat but trying both at the same time is likely to lead to no progress in either direction.
    That said if you've not strength trained before then you'll have a lot of untapped muscle potential in the beginning that will give you some quick gains.
    Hi Daemonized, thanks for coming back to me with a comprehensive response. I could be wrong but I believe that Mark argues against the popular idea that you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. If your body is trained to draw from your fat deposits, then it can do so with a calorific deficit whilst using the ingested protein to fuel muscle gains.

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    I think Daemonized is pretty much right. Even on Leangains, many people who are in the "lean and trained" category gain some fat when they are working on muscle gains, and some who are working on fat loss probably lose a little bit of muscle; the Leangains method just generally improves the ratios. Also, Leangains cycles calories up and down throught the week instead of keeping them constantly above or below maintenance levels, so it's almost like a combined cut/bulk. My theory (not sure if it's true) is that you gain some fat along with your muscle on the above-maintenance days and you lose a small amount of muscle along with the fat on below-maintenance days. But the cycle between cutting/bulking is so short that it seems that you are gaining muscle while losing fat. That's just my theory anyway. Only people who are new/returning to weight training and/or overfat will see truly concurrent muscle gain and fat loss.
    Last edited by yodiewan; 07-20-2011 at 09:10 AM.

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    It is possible to do both at the same time but it happens mostly when a person is untrained and out of shape. When a person has been training for a while their gains tend to level out and hard work and persistence is required to keep building strength and muscle.

    What I did and what worked for me was to first devote my efforts to losing the fat that I wanted to. I got my abs out and found that I looked good at around 6%bf and was comfortable. While I was losing I worked out and was trying not to lose strength or muscle mass. I settled on a weekly body part rotation that works for me and that I can stick to week in and week out. I like my workouts and look forward to them. This phase was a good time to work on form and to assess how strong I really was. I added deadlifting and squats to my routines and learned how to do them without hurting myself.
    After establishing that I didn't need to lose anymore and that I could maintain my weight it was time to start adding muscle. I upped my protein intake and started with carb cycling to keep my glycogen supply in check. At this point I "eat bigger" and I'm trying to make sure I have the fuel to push myself in my workouts. This is what the leangains website is really about and one of the real benefits of IF. You can add muscle without adding much fat. If I start looking a little soft then I know I'm over fueling and should dial back a little. If I'm running low on energy then I probably need a carb re-feed. I'm really not adding much fat though and I know that at any time I can just dial back my intake and the few pounds I might have gained will melt off. Martin at Leangains and the Johnny at theleansalloon (props, you guys are great) are examples of guys who have the technique down pat. I'm not interested in any kind of competition I just want to be healthy, fit and to look great year round.

    If you have fat to lose though my advice is to concentrate on just losing that first then shift your focus to muscle gains (lean gains, not fulking).

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