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Thread: The Last Ten Pounds: Fasting, Carb Refeeds, and How to Get There.... page

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    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
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    The Last Ten Pounds: Fasting, Carb Refeeds, and How to Get There....

    Hello all,

    First of all, let me say that this forum has been a revelation for me. My lovely girlfriend has lost 6 lbs of body fat, and I am making progress as well. I was a vegan this time 2 years ago, and wow has it been a journey back to sanity.....

    Anyway, I am 5 10 and 183 lbs. I have a six pack now with good obliques earned mainly through growing up primal without realizing it, along with far too much walking for a guy with a job to logically do over the years....with this said, I want to lose the last ten pounds or so, just for a little while. I want to see what it would look like, to prove that I can do it for myself. (I was once a fatty vegan, and getting to cover model shape from there would be a big personal step) In other words, I want to go from "Wow" when shirtless to tongue dragging.....and I want the massive knowledge of the people in here to help me get there...

    Intermittent Fasting: My goal right now is to eat in a 6 hour window from noon to 6pm. Should this be done every day for maximum effect, or cycled? What about days when I burn a ton of cals? Does this work for that final ten or so?

    The Damn Workouts: Right now, I am a little all over the place. I spent 3 hours cycling yesterday at pretty slow pace, and for some reason today was not remotely sore, thus deciding to take the dog on an hour long slow jog/fast walk tonight....tomorrow is 45 min in the gym with all primal movements (I don't do preacher curls. I do deadlifts. Never met a non-builder ripped guy/girl that works one muscle at a time) I will probably do another gym visit later in the week, sprints in between....and through all of this I spend at least an hour a day swimming/flopping around in my pool, playing w the dog, walking, etc....the "active" part is not the issue.

    Carbs (A.K.A. Public Enemy #1): Now this is where I get hung up. Can I eat pure primal and still do all of that activity, AND get to my most ripped potential? What is the deal with carb "refeeds" and is there a super ripped guy/girl that can prove they work? Is keeping my carbs below 100 grams daily going to allow me to have enough energy, along with the fasting?

    Any help from people that have been there would be great....I am not a "hardgainer", so someone that is cutting from say 145 to 135 might have to do less to get that shredded look. Thanks in advance for all of your help.

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    sarahmasteller's Avatar
    sarahmasteller is offline Senior Member
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    Have you checked into the 72 Hour carb refeed experiment page? There are several posters on that thread who may be able to help you with that, some who have had success with the whole cycling or refeeding deal

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    NDF's Avatar
    NDF
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    If you need proof that refeeds work, go take a look at ChocoTaco369 journal/thread about his 72hr carb refeed experiment: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post504709

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    iniQuity's Avatar
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    Athletes that don't eat carbs are shooting themselves in the damn foot. ESPECIALLY if you actually LIKE eating carbs and are only restricting them due to any sort of fears regarding weight gain or anything like that. I know you've read 'there's no such thing as essential carbs" but that doesn't mean we should avoid them if they're available. That means in the off-chance that you should be fully unable to find any, you will survive. No need to avoid them unless you have specific medical reasons, or are very over weight, etc.

    "primal carbs" should go without saying (that means: eat real food, no grains, etc) but I'll throw that in there just in case.

    Choco's thread is on point, his last progress pic is especially awe inspiring.

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    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
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    My position is that sweet potatoes, white potatoes and white rice are the three best carb sources for refeeds due to the high glycemic load. I eat white rice the most often. Yes, it's a "grain", but it's a purified grain. All the bad stuff is gone and it's basically just pure glucose-spiking starch, so my stance is go for it. I can tell you just based on how my digestive system handles it, it's far superior to sweet potatoes in my body's ability to digest them. Eating sweet potatoes for refeeds turns my house into a gas chamber and makes my gut sound like a concrete mixer.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    Went to LeanGains, and came back with a general plan....however I am VERY confused about the lifting sessions, the reverse pyramid, etc. What would a schedule for that look like? What muscle groups on what days? I am currently shooting for only 2-3 gym days weekly (I prefer my hikes, cycling, to that place by far)....here is the plan I have, and PLEASE critique it.

    Workout #1: Chest, Bis/Tris, Planks
    + Workout #2: Deadlift, Squats, Muscle-ups, Overhead Rows, + probably more planks bc I love them

    ^^^^ Done on separate days, giving about a week between repeating a workout.

    + Sprint Day (20 min of stairs, sprints, parachutes, running myself into the ground)

    + Daily 55-75% max heart rate stuff, cycling, light jog, etc

    + 16 hour fasting/ 8 hours feeding

    + Lifting workouts will be done in fasted state with about 15g whey protein 30 min prior, followed by HUGE meal with some carbs after on training days. My Grok runs at 55-75% will probably not be done in fasted state constantly. There are for fun, and its hot as hell out during my fast hours.

    + Hard-core PB only on the other 5 non-lifting days.

    How does this all sound for that deep cut/shredded look....at about 8-9% BF now, and want it that final few points....PLEASE point out areas where I might be off the mark. Should my carb intake go up on other days as well?

    Thanks for all of the guidance!

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    DFH
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    This is maybe off topic, but since rice was mentioned-

    Rice doesn't have the negatives that gluten-containing grains like wheat has.

    I have seen many people attempt to debunk low carb approaches by bringing up the traditional rice filled Asain diets, but they also drink a lot of tea. Just go to Tokyo and look around. Some restaurants have a hot water dispenser on the tables for tea.

    I was a couple of weeks into the leptin reset routine and didn't notice anything until I also added green tea.

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    nolineon's Avatar
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    'Went to LeanGains, and came back with a general plan....however I am VERY confused about the lifting sessions, the reverse pyramid, etc. What would a schedule for that look like? What muscle groups on what days? I am currently shooting for only 2-3 gym days weekly (I prefer my hikes, cycling, to that place by far)....here is the plan I have, and PLEASE critique it.'

    I wasn't going to comment as I'm not even sub 10% yet and I'm not as familiar with all the ins and outs of Leangains yet (digging through the comments is a serious time commitment -- but probably totally worth it). But since no one else is chiming in, and because I'd hope to get as much input from folks as possible were I to post a plan, here goes. As I understand it the pyramid reps is like you start with your 1RM then go down like 10 lbs or so for each set after. Forgot where I read that. Could be wrong. I like to do just some no weight competition flexing after I've burned out the final set.


    'Workout #1: Chest, Bis/Tris, Planks
    + Workout #2: Deadlift, Squats, Muscle-ups, Overhead Rows, + probably more planks bc I love them' ^^^^ Done on separate days, giving about a week between repeating a workout.

    If you don't give yourself a rest day in between WO day 1 and WO day 2 you might be too sore from WO1 to do the same intensity on your muscle ups for WO2. They're pretty tricept and chest heavy if I'm not mistaken. If you're doing about a week between then it sounds like you've decided 2 training days per week with 5 "off"/cardio days. As I understand it Martin suggests 3 lifting days. Are you counting your sprint day as a training day? Will you be eating like a training day or a rest day on that day?' Not sure about that one myself. Seems like the muscle recruitment for sprints is more like lifting than like moving slowly. Might want to consider power cleans. Squats and power cleans seem to be the magic 'throw some heavy metal around' and get magically big with a six-pack movements.


    + Sprint Day (20 min of stairs, sprints, parachutes, running myself into the ground)

    Mark suggests not running yourself into the ground on each sprint set. He says to run each interval until you're gassed and you start to slow down at which point he says stop and rest before starting again with the next sprint. I forget what the rationale is behind that. I think he recommended letting your heart rate to return to "normal" rested state before hitting the next sprint but I could be misremembering. Take everything I'm throwing in here with a little skeptecism as I'm never comfortable referring to something someone said without citing it but I just can't be arsed to go hunting for all the sources to this right now.

    + Daily 55-75% max heart rate stuff, cycling, light jog, etc

    From personal experience I try to keep it above 65%. I don't see the same physiological fat burning response in the 55-65% range. That could just be me.


    + 16 hour fasting/ 8 hours feeding

    Make sure to try to get at least 2 or 3 meals in. It's really tough to consume all the calories that you need in 1 post workout meal. If you do have to get all your calories in 1 sitting you can do what the pros do and drink a bunch of H20 and then empty your bladder before you start eating. It will stretch your stomach and allow you to pack more in.


    '+ Lifting workouts will be done in fasted state with about 15g whey protein 30 min prior, followed by HUGE meal with some carbs after on training days. My Grok runs at 55-75% will probably not be done in fasted state constantly. There are for fun, and its hot as hell out during my fast hours.'

    I got the Xtend watermelon. It goes down OK. Forgot what MB says about whey. I don't think it has as good an amino profile as Xtend and Purple Wraath. If you'd considered it, don't bother buying the Micellar Creme casein powder. It tastes nothing like real pudding. And it has the consistency of a fine grained mud. I'd rather eat real food.


    + Hard-core PB only on the other 5 non-lifting days.

    What does hard-core PB mean? Sub 50g carbs? I'm usually under 60g carbs on primal "move slowly" days and I don't seem to go into ketosis. Probably as a result of having ingested so many carbs on the lifting day before. Martin recommends 3g/kg body weight protein on all days. I think Mark suggests less. If you find you're having trouble hitting the macro goals on your WO day of maintinence calories +20% you might want to throw in some cottage cheese and rice. They're grey area foods but they help me hit the targets. The biggest problem I had adjusting to a Leangains approach on my Primal "off" days was that I couldn't eat a bigass salad because EVOO was throwing my numbers off. No dressing = no salad. I was bummed. But I soldier on.


    'How does this all sound for that deep cut/shredded look....at about 8-9% BF now, and want it that final few points....PLEASE point out areas where I might be off the mark. Should my carb intake go up on other days as well?'

    Like I said. I'm looking forward to getting to 9-10% and I think I'll be happy there. Unless I get bitten by the shredded bug and want to see what it's like at least for a little while. Martin has a section on water weight I think if you really want to eek out as much definition as you can. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


    'Thanks for all of the guidance!'

    You bet. One day I may call upon you to return the favor.
    Last edited by nolineon; 07-12-2011 at 01:01 AM. Reason: grammar

  9. #9
    RezH's Avatar
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    For reverse pyramid training, I would recommend doing squats and deadlifts on separate days. RPT is supposed to be taxing.

    For rep ranges, start with a near 4 rep max for the first set. Drop 20%, wait 3 minutes, then try for six. Drop 20%, wait 3 minutes, do 8.

    Also, RPT should be done on big movements only (squat/deadlift/bench/overhead press/chinups). You're supposed to be going all out, especially on that first set, so accessory work should be done 3x5 or something similar. That's what Martin says anyway.

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