Excessive fasting? page 2

[brahnamin]

Also, I think everybody has a different view on what an IF means. Dr. K believes that IF is a horrible idea for an obese person yet advocates skipping lunch if your not hungry. So if I eat at my first meal at 5:00am and am not hungry until 6-7:00pm, why is that not a fast? Is 14 hours to short? Because you had breakfast? Circadian rythm?

This.

You have the two hardcore camps of the Eat-Stop-Eat 24 hr [ish] IF and the Leangains 8 hr [ish] eating-window IF. And on top of that you have probably over a hundred blog posts on MDA (and countless more forum posts) that refer to skipping a single meal as an IF *opportunity* . . . so I don't think we have an agreement in terms and I understand, considering how widely those terms are used, why someone would have that question about IF vs. Hardcore Leptin Reset.

Quoting Dr. K. saying, *It's BAD!* is worth exactly nil. If Dr. K. has explained somewhere why he believes that, and laid out the science behind it, that might be a useful quote, but *becuz teh dokter sez itz teh badz?* . . . hell, that's half of why I'm here because I'm sick of Doctors telling me something is *bad* without explaining with a solid *why* . . .

If I am recalling correctly, at one point Dr. Kruse explained why initial exercise (on his protocol) is *bad* by saying that it would affect your ultimate longevity but in the same sentence implied that it could also help you lose even more weight in the short run. And hey, maybe someone might want to make that trade. Maybe . . . given that you would then spend less time (ultimately) fat and leptin resistant and adrenal resistant . . . you might live longer taking that shortcut over not taking it. But he blanket makes the recommendation anyway.

Dr. Kruse may be one of the current authorities on this topic - certainly one of the most helpful and forthcoming - but it's still a new science (and like it or not, any *longevity* study that isn't done over the course of generations is speculative at best) - and the weight of his authority is no heavier than his experience and study of the matter . . . and the weight I'll give it before it is fully explained to me across the spectrum is considerably less.

Sorry, but *because so and so said so* is a bogus answer.

/rant

That said, I kinda think I understand *why* Dr. K recommends what he recommends regarding IF. But based on his own explanations of how regaining Leptin sensitivity works I'm not at all sure I agree with him (though I would suggest refraining from IF for beginners myself . . . if those beginners weren't thoroughly familiar with - ie - had practiced - IF). I know that many of you would disagree (now) with combining resetting leptin sensitivity and IF.

*shrUg*

That's fine. I'm certainly no expert. But as it has been explained to me, I can see it working in much the same way (though from opposite directions) as carb refeeds work.

And yeah, I know folks pooh pooh on that for stupid-heavy fat people, too.

[DinosaurKisses]

Direct quote from Dr Kruse-
"IF is a terrible idea if you are leptin resistant."

Why does he say that when he also says it's okay to do 2 meals if you aren't hungry in the middle? Did the leptin thingy work for you or din't it?

I don't get you. Maybe that's okay. But so many of the people in the leptin threads have to guess if they are LR or LS with just a mirror. You actually get your rT3 measured, but when you come out n=0 in the experiment you just say you must not have been so LR after all. Or something. I don't know what you're saying, which is why I posted what I posted. You still haven't answered.

If n=0 for you on the leptin thingy why are you quoting at me what didn't work for you like it's just gospel or something? Still curious.

If it's valuable to hear good solid info on all the n=1 people, then it should be valuable to hear from the n=0 people. Of course Kruse and Richards look like big glaring successes if we only hear from the ones who succeeded doing what they do.

Kruse recommends eating Paleo.

What if that is the only reason his diet works?

[Paleobird]

When Dr. K said IF was not a good idea for people with a lot of weight to lose he was talking about the leangains coffee for breakfast then lunch and dinner program. He doesn't need to re-explain why. His whole program is about getting leptin resistant people back in tune with their circadian rhythms not fighting them. A large protein rich breakfast first thing in the am does this. He has said that you don't need to feel that you have to stuff in three meals in a day if you don't have the appetite for more than two. That's just listening to your body not IFing. But then we are back to Brahnamin's very good point that the terminology is kind of loose in this area and that can be a source of confusion, particularly for a newbie.

[brahnamin]

@ Paleobird -
Yeah, I was very sad to find that the big breakfast actually helped me function (because I really was enjoying the convenience of my window IF and not eating until well after noon). I have a fair grasp of the science behind it, but n=1 being my ultimate barometer, I discovered in going on the leptin reset (for like 5 days) and then going off it again (a couple of weeks) that I actually was snacking much more than I realized when doing the leangains IF protocol. After day one on the leptin reset I didn't snack at all.

Being less of a knuclehead than the average knuckle, I restarted Dr. K's leptin reset today and will be posting results weekly.

@ DinosaurKisses -
I don't have the rules of this forum memorized (I figure someone will smack the back of my head if I ever overstep them) but I frequent another forum that follows the very wise adage of *post about the topic, not the poster* - by which I mean you are asking very specific (and personal) questions of an individual who may or may not want to share them - hell, he may not even be done processing the data himself.

Just my opinion, but you might get better results (and I certainly believe it would be more polite) if you were to send DFH a private message if you want to talk about his specific results and leave it up to him whether or not to put specifics out on the open web.

Not trying to be forum police. Just a suggestion you might consider.

[otzi]

Direct quote from Dr Kruse-
"IF is a terrible idea if you are leptin resistant."

I have a hard time following Dr. Kruse. If you ask him a closed-ended question like: Do calories matter in weight loss? He'll answer: They don't matter a bit, in fact the fewer you consume the more weight you'll lose.

[brahnamin]

I have a hard time following Dr. Kruse. If you ask him a closed-ended question like: Do calories matter in weight loss? He'll answer: They don't matter a bit, in fact the fewer you consume the more weight you'll lose.

*gRin*

He totally does that.

Sometimes I think he's so smart that his brains speeds past half of what he's thinking and he only types out the first phrase of the thought and the last phrase, his poor fingers unable to keep up with all that went between.

[betweenthewheel]

You didn't mention if you have a lot of weight to lose, or just tuning up.

I've lost 30lbs on Paleo without fasting. I currently sit at 200lbs @ 5'10", so I still have a ways to go.

I've been stuck at 200lbs for the past 6 months, so i'm hoping the fasts will get the fat burnin' again.

[brahnamin]

I've lost 30lbs on Paleo without fasting. I currently sit at 200lbs @ 5'10", so I still have a ways to go.

I've been stuck at 200lbs for the past 6 months, so i'm hoping the fasts will get the fat burnin' again.

Can I ask what your goal weight is? I'm 5'11" and I'm shooting for something between 200-220. If you're shooting for around 175 or higher, I'd shoot on over to Leangains and read up on Martin's protocols.

If you are looking to drop below 175 now might be a good time to investigate crack cocaine or single leg amputation.

[DFH]

I've lost 30lbs on Paleo without fasting. I currently sit at 200lbs @ 5'10", so I still have a ways to go.

I've been stuck at 200lbs for the past 6 months, so i'm hoping the fasts will get the fat burnin' again.

That's not so bad. If you would have said you wanted to IF your way down from, like, 280 or something I would go WTF were you thinking!? I agree with brahnamin. Leangains seems to be the gold standard.

[betweenthewheel]

Can I ask what your goal weight is?

I'm not sure exactly how much weight i'd need to lose to achieve the body composition i'm looking for. I've put on some muscle from workouts but most of it is well hidden by excess fat: manboobs, love handles

I'm hoping I won't have to get any lower than 170-180, heh.