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Thread: Sorry I am going to rant and complain. page

  1. #1
    GrockinOut's Avatar
    GrockinOut is offline Senior Member
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    Sorry I am going to rant and complain.

    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Hello all!
    I apologize in advance for this rant, and if I offend anyone it was not my intention! But everyday I come onto these forms and I see people telling people things that prevent them from losing weight, enjoying food, and going out with friends blah blah blah blah.

    Okay here are my two main beefs with the forum lately:
    1. carbs
    and
    2. calories don't matter its all about hormones

    I think I will start with number two first.

    "Calories don't matter" usually followed with "we aren't machines" And I actually agree with that second statement, we are not machines and hence why calorie calculators are completely bogus. Once you find out your maintenance calories all you need to do it subtract calories, seriously. Don't believe me? People always quote themselves and their own experiences on here for their own proof so let me do the same: I was primal when I started reading the book, and went hardcore! literally sub 30 grams of carbs a day for over a month, and I was getting tons of eggs, ground beef, bacon and some veggies here and there. And guess what happened I gained weight (mostly fat I lifting at the time). At first I was like ah it is mainly just water weight from the salt, but the mirrors or how your clothes fit do not lie to you.

    So I did a carb cycling and IF mixture which actually worked pretty well. At least it did at first, but now looking back at it I was eating only 2600 calories a day while working a physical demanding job, and than going crazy on mainly primal carbs on the weekend. I did end up losing most of the weight I put on, and some more! I thought to myself man this carb cycling thingy is the bee's knees!! And about 2 months later I stalled with my weight loss, and decided to bulk up a bit.

    Fast forward our timeline to January this year. Time to cut for the summer! Beach body time (sorry I life on the jersey shore hahaha) So I find a calorie calculator and it informs me that should cut on 2000-2300 calories so that I what I do, and man it sucked. I had no energy, and was no fun to be around. My weight-loss was there, but usually masked by a lot of water retention, and when my lifts started to suffer I decided to eat a maintenance for a week or two at about 2700-3000 calories, and I started losing weight at a steady pace, and I had a lot of energy! It was sweet!

    Once may it I got a bodybugg (it is totally the coolest thing on the planet) and I found out that my maintenance is actually around 3500 calories a day. No wonder cutting on 2200 calories sucked, and eating at 2700 left me with energy, and some weight loss.

    Sorry calories matter, and if you do not want to accept that fact try talking to Martin Berkhan, lyle mcdonald, and almost everyone over in the contest prep section, losing fat, or nutrition sub-forms over at bodybuilding.com yeah I said it that website. The main pages suck and are full of CW, but people in those sections go against CW just as much as we do.

    Okay beef number 1
    carbs

    Sorry I love carbs! I said it! I love eating cereal, poptarts, potatoes, and eating with everyone else in my family at dinner time. Not being able to enjoy food with my family and friends because carbs, or even processed carbs are the going to make me gain weight, and kill me.

    Not true.
    seriously.

    While cutting I have been eating pop-tarts, cereal, and candy bars all in moderation. Thanks to IIFYM (if it fits your macros) it has really been liberating, and I no longer stress over healthy, and unhealthy food. All food in moderation is good, and I now have a truly healthy relationship with food (all kinds of it) and am able to go out and enjoy eating food with my friends at any restaurant and not worry about if there is a primal meal there.

    I guess what I am trying to say is I drank the carbs are bad, you can only eat primal carbs koo-laid, and realized that is a flawed concept.

    not exactly how I wanted to end this but I have to go to work!

  2. #2
    DFH's Avatar
    DFH
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    Re Pop tarts..

    I bet fifty cents the writer is young and hasn't done the damage yet!

  3. #3
    Grizz's Avatar
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    Grockinout,

    What are you even doing here? Go away until you have gained 100 lbs, with Diabetes & heart disease.

    If you want to be convinced, see the links below from my favorite Cardiologist. I say you won't bother because your mind is already made up. You don't want to learn because you are bull headed & stubborn. If you don't appreciate what Cardiologist Dr. Wm Davis has to say, then just leave this message board.

    Grizz

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    GrockinOut's Avatar
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    Re: poster is young at 22 and I did do the damage weighing 240 pounds in middle school, and had type 2 diabetes.
    @grizz And don't think I haven't done my research as well. Nice thing about being in college is free acess to journals, and I will post them later. The links are not on my iPhone, and while I do agree that eatIng nothing but food with no nutrional value is unhealthy there is a unneeded fear that eating them at all is unhealthy.
    And I am not close minded, nor unwilling to learn. In fact was all about paleo an pb until I started doing my own research.

  5. #5
    Aly's Avatar
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    Sorry I love carbs! I said it! I love eating cereal, poptarts, potatoes, and eating with everyone else in my family at dinner time. Not being able to enjoy food with my family and friends because carbs, or even processed carbs are the going to make me gain weight, and kill me.

    Not true.
    seriously.

    While cutting I have been eating pop-tarts, cereal, and candy bars all in moderation. Thanks to IIFYM (if it fits your macros) it has really been liberating, and I no longer stress over healthy, and unhealthy food. All food in moderation is good, and I now have a truly healthy relationship with food (all kinds of it) and am able to go out and enjoy eating food with my friends at any restaurant and not worry about if there is a primal meal there.

    I guess what I am trying to say is I drank the carbs are bad, you can only eat primal carbs koo-laid, and realized that is a flawed concept.
    I've always secretly agreed that calories matter, so I'm not going to respond to that.

    If your reasoning that we're wrong is because you love carbs, think again. Most of us loved carbs at one point, but not enough to let it kill us. You were trying to sound dramatic when you said that we think carbs will kill us, but that's right on, actually. Refined carbohydrates have been linked to diseases of the heart, kidneys, liver and pancreas. Refined carbohydrates contribute to hyperactivity, learning problems and violent tendencies and are also connected to allergies, anorexia, bone loss, cancer, depression, diabetes, Celiac Disease and gluten intolerance. The list is probably longer, but as you can see, that's pretty damn long as it is. Notice that the average American will die from one of these problems. So what's the cause of all this? Now, I wouldn't go on to say that no primal eater has ever had heart disease or never contracted cancer, but if the average American threw out all their refined carbs, they'd live a helluva lot longer because they'd be dying from old age instead of liver failure.

    It sounds like your bitterness of a primal diet doesn't stem from any scientific or logical reasoning. Rather, it seems to be purely emotion. ("I can't eat out with my friends!! I LIKE CANDY AND POPTARTS!!!!!!") While I'm glad you're at least eating your refined carbs in moderation, I don't think you're making the healthiest choice. If it works for you, wonderful. I hope you stick with it. But just knowing what refined carbs (candy and poptarts) do to your body, I don't see weight loss in your future.

    And also,

    I was primal when I started reading the book, and went hardcore! literally sub 30 grams of carbs a day for over a month, and I was getting tons of eggs, ground beef, bacon and some veggies here and there. And guess what happened I gained weight
    Did you even read Mark Sisson's book? I'm pretty sure he said to get tons of greens, carrots, onions and some meat here and there, not tons of eggs, ground beef, bacon and some veggies here and there. No wonder you were gaining weight.
    Last edited by Aly; 06-26-2011 at 07:22 AM.

  6. #6
    DFH's Avatar
    DFH
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrockinOut View Post
    Re: poster is young at 22 and I did do the damage weighing 240 pounds in middle school, and had type 2 diabetes.
    ...
    Good for you. If you want to revert back, keep eating the Pop Tarts!

    I don't understand the rant at all. If you were big and lost it, you got things figured out. If you want to be careless now, no need to brag about it.

  7. #7
    tfarny's Avatar
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    Calories matter, most of us freely accept that. But they are not the whole story at all. That part, I don't get your rant or know who you've been listening to. Mark certainly thinks calories matter.
    If you want to eat pop tarts and candy bars, go right ahead kiddo. Love to see the "research" that supports those choices, but whatever. Your post did not exactly convince me to go out and buy some pop tarts.
    Finally, 22 year olds do not get to give out nutrition advice based on their personal experiences. My sister in law lived on velveeta and white bread for the first 24 years of her life and had clear skin and a nice figure. Around 30, it hit her like a ton of bricks just like it does to almost everyone.
    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

  8. #8
    MikeEnRegalia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Grockinout,

    What are you even doing here? Go away until you have gained 100 lbs, with Diabetes & heart disease.

    If you want to be convinced, see the links below from my favorite Cardiologist. I say you won't bother because your mind is already made up. You don't want to learn because you are bull headed & stubborn. If you don't appreciate what Cardiologist Dr. Wm Davis has to say, then just leave this message board.

    Grizz
    I wonder who's the one with the already made up mind here.

  9. #9
    MikeEnRegalia's Avatar
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    Calories matter, I agree with that. In the end if you want to lose fat you have to eat less and move more. But I would disagree with your notion that "all food in moderation is good". The kind of food you eat can greatly influence your ability to eat less and move more, and some food (products) are inherently unhealthy. I agree that many people don't need to avoid carbs to optimize their body composition - the Taubes dogma is essentially wrong, it's not all about carbs and insulin - but many people have serious problems with eating sugar/grain heavy food in moderation. I can easily eat 10 ounces of chocolate in one setting, or even as a dessert after a bowl of pasta (7-8 ounces dry). There are other people - most of which you'd call "naturally lean" who could simply not eat that much, they would get sick and throw up (there's a nice overfeeding experiment on youtube that demonstrates that YouTube - ‪Why Are Thin People Not Fat 1/7‬‏).

    The bottom line: A) Eat healthy food, b) experiment with different macronutrient ratios and stick with what makes you feel best and least prone to overeat/binge. For some people that's a lot of fat, meat and vegetables, for others it can be a little fat, lean meat, veggies and "clean" carbs like rice or potatoes. And fruit, and for some - rare specimens like one friend of mine - a bag of M&Ms. But like I said: Stick with whatever you can eat in moderation. When a guy like Mark Sisson says "eat when you're hungry and until you're satisfied", I'm now sure that he's one of those guys who are naturally less prone to overeat. Persons who *are* prone to overeat would be well advised to keep themselves from overeating if they want to change their body composition.

  10. #10
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    Maybe it's because I'm a chick and the hormone changes are different than for a man, but I was able to eat mass quantities of carbs and processed foods when I was younger too.

    When I was in my early 20s, I would have a Carnation Instant Breakfast when I woke up, every single day of my life (with extra 2% lowfat milk). I would go to work and LITERALLY have a can of frosting and a full sugar Dr Pepper for lunch, finishing the rest of the 6-pack before I left for home. Dinner was generally a pan pizza and another couple of sodas. If it wasn't pan pizza, it was probably a double cheesebuerger with extra large fries. Snacks were PopTarts and/or Reese's and/or Three Musketeers bars. Big fan of chili cheese fries, too.

    I never exercised and I was skinny at 130 pounds. I seriously looked like I did heroin (I didn't).

    Fast forward 15 years, some hormone changes and the damage all of that crap did to my body, and I was 40 pounds heavier, and it was mostly weight on my belly, neck and face (not to mention internal organs). I'm lucky that genes are on my side as far as ever getting morbidly obese, but I see what has happened to the rest of my family. They're not eating PopTarts or cans of frosting, but they're eating whole grains and lowfat everything. And they have colon problems and Alzheimers and breast cancer and Parkinsons and have had their gall bladders removed. They're on statins and acid reflux meds and anti-nausea meds and a host of other meds that all counteract the foods they eat and the effects of other meds they're taking. It's just scary, and I don't want to ever be that.

    All this is to say - please don't think that you ar doing fine just because you are burning more calories than you are eating. The quality of your food is incredibly important, and you may not see the damage until you get a little older. Check out pictures of high school football stars at their reunions. It usually catches up to you, and then it's really tough to fix.
    My sorely neglected blog - http://ThatWriterBroad.com

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