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  1. #1
    MalPaz's Avatar
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    Oxidation

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    Can oxidation exceed fat storage (ie can NET fat loss be achieved) in a calorie surplus or indeed maintenance. I don't at the moment see how it can be, since fat is always the LAST to be dealt with. Am I wrong there?

  2. #2
    MalPaz's Avatar
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    to answer my own question with what i do know....


    Fat can only be oxidised when insulin is lowish (unless FAT cells are resistant and that's a whole other issue). what causes fat cell resistance???

    Could it be that, once your metabolism has recovered(high fat primal) to the point that any fat that is stored postprandially is also optimally released and oxidised during fasting periods (and you use predominantly fatty acids and ketones for energy production), you actually need fewer dietary calories to translate into cellular energy (ATP) because you get so much more ATP per molecule of fatty acid?

    is this why VLC HF diets stop working... people keeping eating more when it comes to basic body chemistry tyou only need a very small amount of food once your fixed if you are sticking to a VLC HF diet....

    food for thought

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    Heheh, you talk funny!

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    Haha, Indeed.

    Of course oxidation can't exceed storage in caloric a surplus, the fact that oxidation doesn't exceed or meet storage is why we call it a caloric surplus in the first place. It's not like we have unlimited storage for carbohydrate, excess that we can't use will get tuned into fat. Maybe we're using different meanings, I think you know more about this stuff than I do now so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    My guess is that this all boils down to the mitochondria. In most of our mitochondria we're either burning fats or carbs at any given time, mostly. It's not like if people eat too much fat they won't burn enough of their body fat because they're just burning what they eat, eating carbohydrate in its place just makes you burn carbohydrate in its place in all of those mitochondria that you would have been burning fat. From that perspective 2000 calories of glucose or 2000 calories of fat is going to be the same with regards to fat loss, it is all more or less the same energy. But you did hit on a different point, carbohydrate is burned less efficiciently than fat so if you have an enormous amount of fat to burn and you just tack more fat onto it, you run the risk of being just too darn efficient for you own good, if it was carbohydrate you would be making more heat and burning more total calories, theoretically. That's not to say that high-fat diets can't be the final solution for somebody's weight issues, though.

    I'm going to guess that high-fat diets for fat-loss can make a person eventually succumb to lipotoxicity. Remember Dr. Kruse, Mastering Leptin and uncoupling proteins? We need full action of UPC3 to burn fat properly, if we are leptin resistant (as those who are trying to lose fat will be) then that is compromised and they will be more vulnerable to fat build-up in the cells, which can cause damage to the mitochondria and eventually make it hard to run the metabolism well.

    That's not necessarily going to happen if people are smart like Dr. Kruse and cover their bases. It really depends on the diet. Are you on Atkins but ignorant about nutrition and are you eating nothing but peanut butter and sausage? Well then you're going to be a lot more leptin resistant than someone following Mark Sisson's or Dr. Kruse's advice perfectly. Also I think some stalling could possibly due to nutrient deficiencies due to carelessness. I'm not about to say that high fat is necessarily bad for fat loss if done right. There are also theories about too much protein or too little carbohydrate + stress and exercise and fasting and cortisol and such. I'm not sure what i believe there.

    Funny talking: cease!
    Last edited by Stabby; 06-21-2011 at 06:10 PM.
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

  5. #5
    MalPaz's Avatar
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    ahhh i got it, i think i just confused myself momentarily lol

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    Heh, happens to us all. That just means you're thinking enough!
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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