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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo View Post
    Thank you Digby.

    I'm upset by the caffeine issue!! LOL

    Probably a good reason for giving it up but I am resistant.
    I love my coffee in the am... its a ritual for me... but I will say that w/the leptin program I'm finding I'm not snacking, eating only 3meals/day, enjoying my food, and finding I'm not stuffing myself either. I'm not always able to eat w/in 30min of waking and some days 50g of protein is too much food...but I'm limiting all carbs 1st thing in the am...and trying to keep my carbs to veggies only. I haven't checked the scale... but I feel lighter and I'm gonna go w/that.

    I've got to schedule my semi-annual physical w/the VA and plan to ask my doc to run an r T3. to see what my leptin resistance is...

  2. #22
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    Is there any researching supporting the interesting claims wrt caffeine?
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by davem View Post
    Is there any researching supporting the interesting claims wrt caffeine?
    It's known that caffeine raises insulin; you can google for the research.
    Byron Richards, in Mastering Leptin, writes this:
    If caffeine raises blood pressure more than four points, contributes to weight gain around the middle, and/or there is great trouble following the Five Rules, then it can be assumed that caffeine intake is excessive. This is because excess sympathetic nerve stimulation causes a numbing effect on fat cells in the abdominal area. This leads to excess weight gain around the middle. In such situations, caffeine is making adrenaline resistance worse. Therefore, the overcaffeinated individual is irritable, hyper, prone to high blood pressure, has trouble sleeping, has insulin resistance, and is gaining weight around the middle. (Kindle Locations 2914-2920).
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugarBaby View Post
    It's known that caffeine raises insulin; you can google for the research.
    Obesity Journal: High Caffeine Intake was associated with weight loss and leptin suppression in women.
    Intl. Journal of Obesity Related to Metabolic Discord: Caffeine loading correlates to increased weight loss in obese subjects (Old science, from 1994, so should be well known.)
    Intl. Journal of Obesity: A supplement with 100mg of caffeine as a major effective ingredient shown effective to increase fat loss, lower glucose, fasting insulin, leptin, triglycerides and more.

    Now I did find one study that supports Richard's claim in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, but the test population was 9 obese males, which really isn't enough for a real study.

    So aside from that 9 man test, is there any support for that claim, or Mr. Richards's? I haven't found anything that supports it.
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  5. #25
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    I always want to snack at night. Has this protocol helped with that?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwhit View Post
    I always want to snack at night. Has this protocol helped with that?
    *shrUg*

    It helped me.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by davem View Post

    Richards has 14-15 citations for his caffeine statements, and I'll copy them when I get back to my computer (can't do on Ipad).
    The National Geographic magazine had a great issue on caffeine three years ago, January or Feb, and there is definitely a dichotomy of test results; and we keep reading that SOME coffee, tea, green tea is good for ypu, but too much has negative effects, and moreso for some people. I find caffeine in tea doesn't bother me, but coffee keeps me jittery, anxious, can't sleep. My partner gets extrmely short tempered on coffee, but not on tea. So we have morning black tea, caffeinated, then decaf after that. We both drink 2-3 liters of tea daily. So my conclusion is, like most diet-related things, that you have to figure out your tolerances. I get impatient with the notion that there is one size fits all since clearly there isn't such a thing. I think that acids in coffee make the caffeine have a greater impact, but that's just my notion. I love coffee, but switched to a good Columbian decaf for times when only coffee will do.
    Last edited by Digby; 07-05-2011 at 02:17 PM.
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  8. #28
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    There is a lot to be said about synergistic compounds. Obviously, there is a lot of data out there, and it would be a full time job to comb through all of it, at the end of the day though, I think you're right - it comes down to the individual. I just make it a habit to question data that says something definite such as, "Caffeine causes your insulin to go haywire like this!" Which is the reason I asked, and countered with the research I'm familiar with, as I'd like to see what else is out there.

    I drink a cup or two of coffee a day, except on the days I drink more or less. I've found a very distinct improvement when weight lifting, and a reduced magnitude in the post workout DOMS, but that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digby View Post
    The National Geographic magazine had a great issue on caffeine three years ago, January or Feb, and there is definitely a dichotomy of test results; and we keping reading that SOME coffee, tea, green tea is good for ypu, but too much has negative effects, and moreso for some people. I find caffeine in tea doesn't bother me, but coffee keeps me jittery, anxious, can't sleep. My partner gets extrmely short tempered on coffee, but not on tea. So we have morning black tea, caffeinated, then decaf after that. We both drink 2-3 liters of tea daily. So my conclusion is, like most diet-related things, that you have to figure out your tolerances. I get impatient with the notion that there is one size fits all since clearly there isn't such a thing. I think that acids in coffee make the caffeine have a greater impact, but that's just my notion. I love coffee, but switched to a good Columbian decaf for times when only coffee will do.
    My Fitday public journal.
    Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
    Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
    Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by davem View Post
    There is a lot to be said about synergistic compounds. Obviously, there is a lot of data out there, and it would be a full time job to comb through all of it, at the end of the day though, I think you're right - it comes down to the individual. I just make it a habit to question data that says something definite such as, "Caffeine causes your insulin to go haywire like this!" Which is the reason I asked, and countered with the research I'm familiar with, as I'd like to see what else is out there.

    I drink a cup or two of coffee a day, except on the days I drink more or less. I've found a very distinct improvement when weight lifting, and a reduced magnitude in the post workout DOMS, but that's about it.
    Here are references as promised:
    References related to caffeine in Richards, Byron J. (2009). Mastering Leptin: Your Guide to Permanent Weight Loss and Optimum Health (Kindle Locations 6816-6827). Wellness Resources Books. Kindle Edition.
    217 Zheng G, Sayama K, Okubo T, Juneja LR, Oguni I. Anti-obesity effects of three major components of green tea, catechins, caffeine and theanine, in mice. In Vivo. 2004 Jan-Feb;18(1):55-62. 218 Sachan DS, Hongu N. Increases in VO(2)max and metabolic markers of fat oxidation by caffeine, carnitine, and choline supplementation in rats. 0955-2863 2000 Oct;11(10):521-526
    219 Ryu S, Choi SK, Joung SS, Suh H, Cha YS, Lee S, Lim K. Caffeine as a lipolytic food component increases endurance performance in rats and athletes. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo) 2001 Apr;47(2):139-46
    227 Lieberman HR, Tharion WJ, Shukitt-Hale B, Speckman KL, Tulley R. Effects of caffeine, sleep loss, and stress on cognitive performance and mood during U.S. Navy SEAL training. Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2002 Nov;164(3):250-61 228 Yeomans MR, Ripley T, Davies LH, Rusted JM, Rogers PJ. Effects of caffeine on performance and mood depend on the level of caffeine abstinence. Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2002 Nov;164(3):241-9 229 McClellan Stine M, O’Connor RJ, Yatko BR, Grunberg NE, Cousino Klein L. Evidence for a relationship between daily caffeine consumption and accuracy of time estimation. Hum Psychopharmacol 2002 Oct;17(7):361-7
    232 Shaul PW, Farrell MK, Maloney MJ. Caffeine toxicity as a cause of acute psychosis in anorexia nervosa. J Pediatr 1984 Sep;105(3):493-5 Shaul PW, Farrell MK, Maloney MJ. Caffeine toxicity as a cause of acute psychosis in anorexia nervosa. J Pediatr 1984 Sep;105(3):493-5 233 Forman J, Aizer A, Young CR. Myocardial infarction resulting from caffeine overdose in an anorectic woman. Ann Emerg Med 1997 Jan;29(1):178-80 234 Keijzers GB, De Galan BE, Tack CJ, Smits P. Caffeine can decrease insulin sensitivity in humans. Diabetes Care 2002 Feb;25(2):364-9 235 Hartley TR, Lovallo WR, Whitsett TL. Cardiovascular effects of caffeine in men and women. Am J Cardiol. 2004 Apr 15;93(8):1022-6. 236 Lane JD, Pieper CF, Phillips-Bute BG, Bryant JE, Kuhn CM. Caffeine affects cardiovascular and neuroendocrine activation at work and home. Psychosom Med 2002 Jul-Aug;64(4):595-603
    This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
    Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

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