Leptin Reset Experiment starts today - Jack Kruse style page 148

[RSL]

Mommagrok is getting it. But I would not drop fat first. Fat is very stimulatory to modulating control over the incretin gut system. I'd cut protein first. Minor point. If your hungry eat MORE at breakfast!

So should there be a set amount of protein that I should be eating for the whole day, with most of it coming at breakfast? Eating 50 grams of protein at breakfast, then eating a normal lunch and dinner was getting me in at 113 grams of protein, 166 grams of fat and 25 grams of carbs, for a total of over 2100 calories per day.

Lunch was 31 grams of protein and dinner was 32 grams of protein.

So I should go ahead and go back to eating 50 grams of protein at breakfast, but then just snack on protein for lunch and dinner instead of having a normal protein serving? Like, maybe go down to only 20 grams of protein at lunch and again at dinner, or is that too little for the day? That would be a total of 90 grams of protein for the day...

Rsl I was not talking to you specifically about falling off the wagon.....

Oh, thanks! I thought you had gotten me mixed up with someone who had been cheating...

And thank you so much, generally. You have no idea the struggle this has been for me, and I need to see something break here. This is my weight chart, to give you an idea of my level of desperation:

[RSL]

There's definitely a limit to how much you should eat. Calories still matter in the end, but it's much more sensible to eat in a way that naturally reduces your desire for huge amounts of food (that is, low-carb) instead of a way that's just trying to cut back on calories (like I used to do). At least, that's the way I'm seeing calories right now.

I am so totally the "total calories don't matter" girl!

I know that our bodies handle fat, protein and carbs in such different ways, and it always drives me crazy when people say that we need a certain amount of calories, blah, blah, blah, with no regard to the makeup of the different macronutrients.

That is why I want to make sure that I am eating the right number of grams of fat, grams of protein and grams of carbs for my body, and whatever total amount of calories that adds up to is of no consequence to me. If I am eating too much, it means I am either eating too much fat, too much protein or too much carbs, not too many calories in general.

But while the body is healing, calorie-reduction may be counterproductive. Or not. I don't know. I just know that before I started figuring out what I had to do to reduce my sugar cravings, I would always try to skip meals to make up for indiscretions. Then I started Radiant Recovery, which has the fundamental premise of "feed your body what it needs so the messed up biochemistry will heal." I followed the instructions to eat 1/6 my body weight in protein with every meal, no matter how full I already was from bingeing, and yeah, I gained 10lb first. I refer to it lovingly now as "the best 10lb I ever gained," b/c it came from increasing what I needed, and while that was happening, the need for the crap was diminishing. The next thing that happened was a huge decrease in cravings, and so I was no longer eating the huge amounts of non-needed food, and the weight started dropping, and has been on that trend ever since, three years now. VERY slowly, but the same trend. The 8 years of SLOW gaining finally stopped and the whole trend reversed, b/c of that 10 pounds.

That is very interesting! So, you are to eat 1/6 of your weight in GRAMS of protein at each of three daily meals? So that is eating having your weight in pounds of grams of protein? At my current weight of 147 (gulp!) I would only be eating 73.5 grams of protein per day?

I know that the low end of the grams of protein that Atkins recommends for a woman my height is 71 grams per day, which is pretty close to the 1/6 thing. Interesting.

My own story is that just starting to eat low carb (Atkins in March 2009) was enough to kill off any carb cravings I had. I still struggle when I am around family, but I'm sure that is an emotional thing, and not biological for me.

[RSL]

I think that you should not worry so much about calories right now. I know easier said than done but I agree when your body is trying to heal and regulate hormones etc. it is counterproductive for it to "starve" also that will just increase your rT3 which according to Dr. K is high in leptin resistance to begin with.

A little over a year ago I did a high protein, low carb, low fat, and low calorie (about 1,000 a day) diet and I think by doing that I may have got myself into some of this mess. So for now while I am doing this reset for the next 8 weeks I am not worrying about calories and am just eating until I feel satisfied. I also have a HUGE appetite but I did when I was "skinny" too the only difference was I didn't gain then. Not sure why but it all changed after I had kids.

That's just my opinion.

I just wrote another post about how I am not worrying about calories, per se, but I am worrying that I might be eating too much fat, or too much protein, but not just calories in general.

If I eat until satisfied, I get the results I got this past week - I gained 3.3 pounds of fat and an inch around my waist and multiple other inches in other body parts.

That needs to stop!

Dr. Kruse has advised me to drop protein a little. So I'm going to try that.

Thanks for your input, NaturalGirl!

[Barb]

@RSL - The mastering leptin book suggests that people eat their meals slowly and stop eating before they feel completely full and satisfied. He says there is a lag time between eating enough for requirements and getting the satiation signal in the brain - and I can't remember, but perhaps this lag time is worse with LR? According to ML, it should take about 20 minutes after stopping eating to "less than full" for you to feel satiated. So it makes sense to try and cut down on the amount of food you are eating at lunch and dinner a bit. If you have found no difference in your cravings/hunger between 50g protein and 40g protein for breakfast, I would go with the 40g. This plan has the exact same recommendation for 50g with no allowance for body size, and we know there are extreme differences in that department!

Keep us posted - good luck to you!

[JKC]

I decided to try the big breakfast thing this morning. It is an hour before dinner, and I had no lunch and I am still full. I think I a probably fairly leptin sensitive at this point (5'7" and 124 lbs, I have thyroid issues, but they are longstanding). I am amazed how full it makes me. I was usually doing lunch and dinner and skipping breakfast before, but if I keep on going with this, I may end up defacto skipping lunch just because I don't need it. I will eat supper, but I can imagine it won't be a big one.

[Barb]

I have been following the rules of no snacking, no eating after dinner, low carb, and high protein but not 50g breakfast. One thing I have noticed is that I often feel a twinge of hunger around 10:30-11:00 am and then maybe about 15 minutes later I feel just fine - good energy, no hunger. What I think I am experiencing is the hormonal switchover from burning/storing my breakfast calories to burning stored energy sources. Or, as Jack K would say, "getting a snack from my liver'.

BTW, my favorite phrase of yours was that one - something along the lines of, "of course we are meant to snack, but we are supposed to be getting a snack from the liver!" I love thinking of my liver as a little snack shop. And now I think I can feel precisely when I am getting that snack.

[RSL]

@RSL - The mastering leptin book suggests that people eat their meals slowly and stop eating before they feel completely full and satisfied. He says there is a lag time between eating enough for requirements and getting the satiation signal in the brain - and I can't remember, but perhaps this lag time is worse with LR? According to ML, it should take about 20 minutes after stopping eating to "less than full" for you to feel satiated. So it makes sense to try and cut down on the amount of food you are eating at lunch and dinner a bit. If you have found no difference in your cravings/hunger between 50g protein and 40g protein for breakfast, I would go with the 40g. This plan has the exact same recommendation for 50g with no allowance for body size, and we know there are extreme differences in that department!

Keep us posted - good luck to you!

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject! I'm taking everything into account...

If I need to reduce my protein over all, but am not allowed to lower it at breakfast below 50, then I'm literally going to get to have two or three bites of meat with lunch and dinner! Not being hungry is one thing, but having to eat like a bird is another!

[Paleobirdy]

I guess my basic question is this: If we know that appetites are not controlled when we are leptin resistant, is it not counterproductive to eat as much as we want at meals? Wouldn't we almost always be eating too much? Eating a gigantic breakfast keeps me from being hungry and keeps me from craving, but, at least so far, it has not kept me from wanting to eat a normal sized meal at lunch and dinner. It has not reduced my appetite to the extent that I want to only snack for lunch and dinner.

Just my 2 cents here. When I first started, I ate a large breakfast and found that I was just as hungry for later meals as when I didn't eat that much for breakfast. During the first week, things gradually changed to where I enjoyed the large breakfast, was hungry enough for it, and then in later weeks I found myself not wanting as much for later meals. But there was that time in between when I gained a pound, and I looked at the calorie levels and became concerned. That is when I just decided to do the protocol and not track my protein grams or calories, or even weigh myself very much. I read about others here who had the same thing happen, and I didn't want to derail my process by confirming failure in the short-term.
For me, it took about 2-3 weeks for me to start reducing the size of the later meals naturally. I just can't believe I have a full switch.
For younger folks here who just say stuff like, "Hey, just eat real food and stop when you are full, stupid," I have to say that you just don't know what it is to live with no off-switch. It is always full speed ahead. If you are dieting, there is one foot on the brake, and the other one still on the accelerator. What a crazy way to live, and it even seems more crazy now that I don't have to do that anymore just to stay in place.

[FairyRae]

Just my 2 cents here. When I first started, I ate a large breakfast and found that I was just as hungry for later meals as when I didn't eat that much for breakfast. During the first week, things gradually changed to where I enjoyed the large breakfast, was hungry enough for it, and then in later weeks I found myself not wanting as much for later meals. But there was that time in between when I gained a pound, and I looked at the calorie levels and became concerned. That is when I just decided to do the protocol and not track my protein grams or calories, or even weigh myself very much. I read about others here who had the same thing happen, and I didn't want to derail my process by confirming failure in the short-term.
For me, it took about 2-3 weeks for me to start reducing the size of the later meals naturally. I just can't believe I have a full switch.
For younger folks here who just say stuff like, "Hey, just eat real food and stop when you are full, stupid," I have to say that you just don't know what it is to live with no off-switch. It is always full speed ahead. If you are dieting, there is one foot on the brake, and the other one still on the accelerator. What a crazy way to live, and it even seems more crazy now that I don't have to do that anymore just to stay in place.

Wow Paleobirdy--that makes a lot of sense and sounds like an awesome change! I look forward to reading more of your progress here!!!

[MamaGrok]

there is one foot on the brake, and the other one still on the accelerator.

What a great, great way to put it. Yes, exactly!