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Thread: Leptin Reset Experiment starts today - Jack Kruse style

  1. #10501
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSurgeon View Post
    nope.......Wilson is dead wrong. Rev T3 is a competive inhibitor to T3 and T4. You must find the cause of the rev T3 and stop and reverse it. If you give someone T3 or T4 on top of it youre "pissing in the wind". This is the most common mistake I see in thyroid hormone 101 Tx. Giving more T3 or T4 in this scenario just raises the revT3.
    I don't know much about Wilson's protocol, but I know that I've had a low basal body temp most of my adult life, which is part of his "syndrome" as I understand it.

    I never heard of "Reverse T3" before I began reading the Leptin blogs July 10.

    However, as a child of 8, before all the wonderful lab testing that all modern doctors are addicted to, my family doc put me on my first diet along with 1 grain of dessicated thyroid. This was based upon my symptoms of puffiness, chronic constipation, lethargy, poor skin and hair texture, always being cold, and my cranky attitude. As a child doesn't like to think they have to take anything every day for life (as my doctor told me) I sometimes skipped taking it. When just a few day went by and I'd not taken it, my mother would confront me on the issue, saying she KNEW I hadn't taken it because, "When on thyroid, you are active, outgoing, pleasant to be around and appear happy. When off thyroid, you are cranky and withdraw to your room, not wanting to go out and play with your friends!" She busted me every time! I learned that I am, indeed, a happier person while taking my thyroid.

    I had a yearly physical and the prescription never changed. I took it for 20 years before my family doc died and the new doctors would NOT prescribe what I needed because my TSH always tested "normal." At the time I could not get my next prescription I was a healthy and active young woman. I worked a successful full time job six days a week in sales, I taught adult education two nights a week, I waitressed or hostessed in a restaurant Sundays, I worked out at a gym 1 night a week, maintained my own yard care installing new landscaping for my new home, and had an active social life!

    I spent hundreds of dollars in search of a doctor who would prescribe what had worked so well for me for 20 years, to no avail. Within 3 years of not being able to get thyroid, I was studying accounting in hopes of being better able to avoid people. I was becoming more and more lethargic, and my muscles no longer begged to be exercised as they had when I took my thyroid. I was getting fat and extremely depressed. I could no longer handle the ups and downs of daily living and was an emotional basket case. I'd had several severe personal losses while taking thyroid, but was able to handle them! Had a great "I can do ANYTHING!" spirit! No more! I was even suicidal at one point. Still, I could get no thyroid prescribed. I could get all the anti-depressants and pain killers and pep talks about how I just need to push myself harder, but could get no thyroid.

    Fast forward to my 60's and I was 376 lb and a real mess! Still, no thyroid, but I could increase my prozac if I wanted! My bad cholesterol was falling due to taking fish oil, but so was the good cholesterol falling and my doctor was "concerned" but still no thyroid prescription. I was in excruciating pain and basically, just waiting around for the bad scenario to completely take my life ... was already pitying the crew that would have to carry my heavy dead body out of my house. The only thing I knew to do was go on several 1-2 week starvation diets to try to get some weight off before that happened. I'd tried EVERYTHING else under the sun ... whatever weight I'd lose, IF I lost, came right back and brought a couple friends.

    In March of this year I decided to take control of my own health, thanks to the wisdom of friends on the HCG diet info forum (oh! I'd lost 54 lb on "woo woo" homeopathic HCG since October 30, 2010! But was still pretty lethargic and had few interests outside of getting my weight off.) I read how others were taking control at Stop the Thyroid Madness, and at Dr. Lowe's web site I learned how to know what I'm talking about with my own thyroid issues and how to gauge my own progress. I became bold with the knowledge and understanding ... bold enough to KNOW that most doctors just don't "get" thyroid, and I got myself on thyroid again! By the end of April I was volunteering with the local Literacy Council to teach English as a Second Language. Every week I emerge a little more from my shell. My muscles began asking to be moved more and stretched more. I picked up my Resistance Bands again.

    In July I found the Leptin Reset (again thanks to the good folks on the HCG forum who offer their own findings on optimal health) and began the reset on July 11, 2011.

    With what I've learned from Dr. Kruse, I believe Leptin Resistance quite likely began before my thyroid issues. HOWEVER, since Leptin was not discovered until 1994, there could have been no way to "resolve my thyroid issues" without THRYOID. It worked for me and is continuing to work as I make adjustments and add selenium and iodine and tweak for the cortisol issues that manifested in the reset as my circadian rhythm began working as it should (not quite there yet). I have MANY issues I'm working on, thanks to YEARS of not being able to get my thyroid meds or find doctors who gave a crap about any underlying possible causes of what they SAW (a fat, lazy woman)!

    Dr. Kurse, I thank you SO much for really CARING about people and offering so much good information. I am a fanatical advocate of your instruction on all health issues, and do hope we have found that "magic health potion" in becoming Leptin Sensitive. However, "piss in the wind" I will continue to do as I take my Armor thyroid daily, thank you.
    Last edited by Kaleein; 11-12-2011 at 09:32 AM.
    Lost 54 lb with HCG from October 31, 2010. Started Paleo (no dairy) April 22, 2011 to maintain my weight loss with HCG. Started losing weight SLOWLY (7 lb) with Paleo June 1. Last week of June I added dairy and stopped losing but maintained. Been on Dr. K's Leptin reset since July 9. Have lost 24 more pounds (as of 10/14), but more importantly, I'm feeling terrific! Currently supporting friends working toward optimal health at

  2. #10502
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Originally Posted by JanSz
    Only NaturalThyroidHormone or Armour of other produced from pigs is bioidentical
    Quote Originally Posted by marcadav View Post
    Please explain how porcine thyroid, Armour, or NaturalThyroid, with a higher T3 to T4 ratio than the human thyroid produces is bioidentical.

    You are stressing small difference in ratio of T4/T3.

    Porcine thyroid is
    bioidentical to human produced thyroid
    but there is a slight t4/t3 ratio difference.

    Synthetic thyroid hormones, Synthroid-T4 and Cytomel-T3
    are not bioidentical.


    This may help:

    Thoughts on the Ancestral Health Symposium. | Jack Kruse

    I know it but my profession is completely blind to the organic chemistry. A patient came up to me and Matt and talked synthroid and I stopped him dead in his tracks……..I said did you not listen to Matt……..stereo chemistry is critical. If is it not like God/evolution dictated it…… is dogshit pure and simple. The guys face was worth a million bucks. He did not get that level of seriousness from his docs at home. We need that to change.

  3. #10503
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianag View Post
    My HbgA1c is over 5.5 so that could be better. 1 hour PPs are Ok.

    For the high FBG I have tried every trick under the sun to deal with what is either Dawn Phenomenon or Somogyi Effect:
    Apple cider - check
    Chia seeds - check
    Protein snack - check
    Zero carb day - check
    Moderate carb day - check
    Green tea - check
    Electrolytes - check
    Monster doses magnesium - check ( worked initially, then stopped )
    Exercise after dinner - check
    Milk thistle - check
    Hydrate - check
    Nasty Okra (bindi) water - check
    And a bunch of others.

    I do need to double check the effect of a Glass of wine with dinner, plus potatoes, aloe vera, cinnamon, good Earth Tea, fenugreek seeds, weight lifting. I am dealing with fungus/ yeast iergrowth so it is possible that it won't go away until it is under control.

    Here is what David Mendosa, who writes extensively about diabetes says about Controlling the Dawn Phenomenon:
    Controlling the Dawn Phenomenon
    I'm on the same path, have tried a lot of different things to no avail. The only thing that levels out my overall BG readings and dawn phenomenon is more complex carbs throughout the day and a little less fat. I also follow Mendosa, he has some very informative posts. Are you officially diabetic?

  4. #10504
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Post your


    For ladies it should be in vicinity:

    pregnenolone--230 ng/dL
    DHEAs--275-400 μg/dL

    Good levels of


    are prerequisite at chance at good cortisol levels


    Dawn phenomenon is defined as an increase in the blood sugar in the morning and is typically invoked in the context of diabetes. It is different from Chronic Somogyi rebound in that dawn effect is not associated with nocturnal hypoglycemia.

    It is possible that dawn effect is caused by the release of counterregulatory hormones such as cortisol, glucagon, or epinephrine, all of which can signal the liver to release glucose. In most of the cases, there is no need to change insulin dosing of patients who encounter dawn effect.[1] The "dawn effect," also called the "dawn phenomenon," is the term used to describe an abnormal early-morning increase in blood sugar (glucose) — usually between 2 a.m. and 8 a.m. — in people with diabetes.

    Some researchers believe it's due to the natural overnight release of hormones — including growth hormones, cortisol, glucagon, and epinephrine — that increase insulin resistance. Other causes may include insufficient insulin administration the night before, incorrect medication dosages, or eating carbohydrate snacks at bedtime.

    Dawn phenomenon can be treated by avoiding carbohydrate intake at bedtime, adjusting the dosage of medication or insulin, switching to a different medication, or by using an insulin pump to administer extra insulin during early-morning hours.
    I guess how you handle DP depends on type I or II also. If you eat more carbs and the dawn phenomenon vanishes, what would this mean? That maybe the carbs stimulated some needed insulin to drive energy into the muscles and cells?

    So, levels of DHEA and preg levels have something to do with DP? I was low in DHEA about a year back (salivary 2.4ng/ml Range was<2-23 depending on age>) and it now in the 'normal' reference range (71mcg/dL <15-170>), Not sure on the value conversion to cross reference with the reference ranges you posted, but age is a consideration with DHEA levels too, right? My preg levels are on the low side of standard testing (17ng/dL range<13-111>post menopausal). My cortisol levels are now in the normal ranges, but were stage II adrenal last winter.

  5. #10505
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrianag View Post
    My FBG is typically is 104-106, I do 30-50 carbs per day, walk 1/2 miles 2x day. Have tried everything under the sun to bring it down, nothing works consistently.
    And what is the fasting insulin and HgA1c?

    Last edited by JanSz; 11-12-2011 at 11:39 AM.

  6. #10506
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Originally Posted by colleencoble
    T3 really helps when you have reverse thyroid. It's what flipped me back around. Check out the Wilson protocol.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSurgeon View Post
    nope.......Wilson is dead wrong. Rev T3 is a competive inhibitor to T3 and T4. You must find the cause of the rev T3 and stop and reverse it. If you give someone T3 or T4 on top of it youre "pissing in the wind". This is the most common mistake I see in thyroid hormone 101 Tx. Giving more T3 or T4 in this scenario just raises the revT3.
    Finally someone said that (clearly), thank you.

    Unless someone is in ER (and needs intravenous T3 to live),
    I think they should not be given any thyroid hormones


    they have good cortisol levels and 24hr profile (that (at least) requires most hormones made out cholesterol to be at good levels)
    plenty of selenium, iodine,
    these two tests (about 50+ analytes) must be ok.

    Spectracell Comprehensive Nutritional Panel (40 vitamins, minerals, other)
    Essential & Metabolic Fatty Acids Analysis (EMFA) by Genova Diagnostics (omega3/6 and other Fatty Acids)

    At this point,
    most, may find out that they do not need Armour Thyroid or Thyroid-S or any other porcine derived thyroid hormones.

    .................................................. ..

    Giving T4 raises RT3 (body must dump T3 overload)
    Giving T3 lowers RT3

    but all that accomplishes, is taking steering wheel out of the car.

    Last edited by JanSz; 11-12-2011 at 11:56 AM.

  7. #10507
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Originally Posted by DigitalSurgeon
    nope.......Wilson is dead wrong. Rev T3 is a competive inhibitor to T3 and T4. You must find the cause of the rev T3 and stop and reverse it. If you give someone T3 or T4 on top of it youre "pissing in the wind". This is the most common mistake I see in thyroid hormone 101 Tx. Giving more T3 or T4 in this scenario just raises the revT3.

    Quote Originally Posted by colleencoble View Post
    It sure worked for me. I had to take 150 mcg, a dose that would have put a normal person in the hospital though. But at that dose my fibromyalgia went away in just a few weeks. I stayed on Cytomel for several years then went to Armour when I went to to the Dzugan protocol with bioidenticals and have been on it ever since but at a much more normal dose. And my fibro never came back.

    And I've actually seen it help many. Strangely enough, quite a few authors have fibro. I've urged others to try it and it's worked for them too.
    dr Kruse's statement is right.

    What we are missing from your descriptions, colleen, are details of your treatment.

    I know that dr Dzugan know what he is doing and is rather on cutting edge, at least, as far as steroid hormones are concerned, but we do not have enough information, to see what he actually did for you, and why.

    Last edited by JanSz; 11-12-2011 at 12:09 PM.

  8. #10508
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    San Diego, CA
    Aren't fibromyalgia patients different when it comes to thyroid treatment? I thought that there was some resistance to thyroid hormone at the tissue level in these folks so treatment needs to differ.

  9. #10509
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by ABLinOZ View Post
    Sorry to go off track a little here but I have just got home after attending a seminar with Nora Gedgaudas in Sydney Australia. is anyone else familiar with her work?
    I had read her "Primal body, primal mind" book some time ago (well before I had even heard of Leptin). At the time, I thought it was great and reinforced my decision to go Paleo. I must have glossed over a lot of the science in the book finding it all too much at the time, but today I was blown away with how many connections I could make from her "nutrition for optimal health" message, and what Dr K talks about. It was a bit of a lightbulb moment when all the dots started to connect.
    Her explanations on how we are all "iceage beings" and why saturated fat = survival, let me understand why Dr K says CO is number one fuel. She also talked about the importance "Neurofeedback"- bringing the brain back into balance through nutrition.
    If you are looking to deepen your knowledge base (not specifically in relation to Leptin) and gain a better understanding of health through nutrition that draws a lot of parallels with what Dr K talks about then it's worth a look.
    I have no problem with large amounts of
    bacon, lard
    butter, sour cream, heavy cream
    I can't eat more than 2tbsp CO or MCT. Get runs to bathroom, 1-2 hrs latter.

    What that may indicate?


  10. #10510
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSSeeker View Post
    According to your Hormone 101 post, it appears to be hypercortisolism, CRH (cortisol releasing hormoe), high CRP, and chronic LR to be the cause. As Shiijin13 said, if you fix cortisol, you'll right the ship.

    Speaking of cortisol, my sleep continues to improve and my waking does as well. This morning my eyes popped open and I was wide awake at 5:26am. I love seeing improvements. In moments of doubt, the changes in my sleep encourage me.
    There is a couple guys (not many) on the net that have tested and know to have
    high CBG, Transcortin (but still within range).

    Person like that may have all his TotalCortisol at good levels and good 24hr profile,
    but he still ends up being low on FreeCortisol.

    How to deal with that?


    There is similar situation with SHBG.

    Last edited by JanSz; 11-12-2011 at 12:38 PM.

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