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Thread: Losing more weight on high carb... page

  1. #1
    bobbylight's Avatar
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    OK, I have seen a lot of people around here saying that they are having a hard time losing that last little bit of fat. Usually people say "well just cut your carbs more, and you will lose it." Is that the right answer though? It some cases, maybe, but in others, maybe not.


    What do you guys think of this study:


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15897479


    You can get the full study at obesityresearch.com if you search for it.


    In this study, they gathered women that were either insulin sensitive or insulin resistant. They put half of each group on either a low carb or high carb diet. The results were astounding. On high carb diets the insulin sensitive lost more weight than the insulin sensitive women on the low carb. But for the insulin resistant women, they lost more weight on the low carb diet, and less on the high carb.


    So how does this relate to getting that last little bit of weight off? Well, obesity or simply being over weight can cause a person to become insulin resistant. Due to this, most fat people will do best on a low carb diet. But, once these people start losing weight and get to normal weight, they will lose that obesity caused insulin resistance and become insulin sensitive...and then they stop losing weight on the low carb diet. The response to this on this board is "lower your carbs even more!!"...but is that smart?


    I don't really think so. It is obvious from this study (although small, but results are still astounding) that different people react to diets differently. If you are having a hard time cutting that last bit of weight, maybe you should look to going on a high carb diet. Eat sweet potatoes all day if you would like. You can still stay primal, but it might be worth your while to increase the carbs.


    Also, you can call me a troll, but I don't see how you can dismiss this research. Some people do better on high carb diets, and this study proves it. And if this wasn't true, how would you explain body builders eating high carb and having very low bf %. You could say "well, they take steroids" or something to that effect. But trust me, steroids don't make you skinny. If you don't believe that, you should do some research on different people in professional sports that have been busted for steroids. One example is Josh Barnett, who is an mma fighter that has been busted a bunch of times for steroids, and he has a spare tire.


    Basically what I am saying is that if you are insulin resistant, low carb is the way to go. By default, most fat people become insulin resistant. So it is safe to say that low carb is good for losing weight for most fat people. But some fat people are still insulin sensitive, and this study shows that a high carb diet is better for insulin sensitivity. Also, body builders that eat high carb diets show that you don't have to eat low carb to have a 6 pack.


    So, back to main point: if you are having a hard time losing that last 20 pounds of weight, try bumping up your carbs and see how you do. You might be insulin sensitive, and if that is the case, you will lose more weight on a high carb diet.


    Call me a troll, but this is science, and this is what Mark was talking about with his post.


  2. #2
    bobbylight's Avatar
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    Sweet potatoes for all!!!!!!!!!


  3. #3
    Tarlach's Avatar
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    The comparison between 20% fat and 40% fat is hardly significant.


    They are both low fat diets, so I fail to see the point. A lot of the calories are still coming from carbs and I'm not surprised that insulin sensitive or insulin resistant people react differently to varied levels of carbs.


    It is also relying on caloric deficit, so they are basically testing the resilience to starvation with exposure to carbs.


    Maybe if they had a 80% fat group I'd take some notice...


    Here's a better study (48% carbs reduced to 8%):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732
    [quote]

    Thus, we conclude that a carbohydrate-restricted diet resulted in a significant reduction in fat mass and a concomitant increase in lean body mass in normal-weight men
    </blockquote>


    They lost body fat and gained muscle without restricting calories.


    Now that&#39;s something to take notice of.


    ...or here is a study of <50g carbs compared to <10% fat (that is a substantial difference)

    http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/297/9/969
    [quote]

    Conclusions In this study, premenopausal overweight and obese women assigned to follow the Atkins diet, which had the lowest carbohydrate intake, lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets.
    </blockquote>


    ...or here is a 2 year study of 322 people comparing 30% fat to <120g carbs

    http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/3/229
    [quote]

    The mean weight loss was 2.9 kg for the low-fat group, 4.4 kg for the Mediterranean-diet group, and 4.7 kg for the low-carbohydrate group


    The relative reduction in the ratio of total cholesterol to high-density lipoprotein cholesterol was 20% in the low-carbohydrate group and 12% in the low-fat group (P=0.01).
    </blockquote>


    That is more weight loss and a more favorable effect on lipids on low carb, compared to low fat


    ...or another good one:

    http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab005105.html
    [quote]

    Overweight or obese people on LGI lost more weight and had more improvement in lipid profiles than those receiving Cdiets. Body mass, total fat mass, body mass index, total cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol all decreased significantly more in the LGI group. In studies comparing ad libitum LGI diets to conventional restricted energy low-fat diets, participants fared as well or better on th LGI diet, even though they could eat as much as desired. Lowering the glycaemic load of the diet appears to be an effective method of promoting weight loss and improving lipid profiles and can be simply incorporated into a person&#39;s lifestyle
    </blockquote>


    Also bodybuilders eat carbs to gain muscle and fat. this is followed by a cutting cycle to lose the fat. Bodybuilders do not get ripped from eating lots of carbs.

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

  4. #4
    eva's Avatar
    eva
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    if you are at all familiar with the mechanism that stores free fatty acids into fatcells in the first place (glucose-> glycerol> triglycerides) you know that it a ludicrous statement. and es tarlach wrote- comparig a lowfat diet to another lowfat diet and just varying the carbs is quite moot.

    challenge yourself
    i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
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    Dont mess with Tarlach!!!


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    Agree with Tarlach.


    And how about the unpublished data from the Gardner study published in JAMA? According to a personal communication with Andrea Garber, Gardner compared insulin-resistant and insulin-sensitive participants. He found that insulin-sensitive women lost weight on either diet, while insulin resistant women only lost weight on the low-carb diet.


    Bobby, didn&#39;t you say you already watched this talk?


    http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=16715


    Start at 1:09:55


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    Oops, I forgot that the uctv server can&#39;t keep up if you skip to the end of the talk. Try the YouTube link instead.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPhXp8pjCjg


  8. #8
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    he&#39;s baaaa-aaaaack....


    oh Bobby. lol


    btw, no such web site as obesityresearch.com


  9. #9
    bobbylight's Avatar
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    Tarlach, None of those other studies took into account insulin sensitivity or resistance. They didn&#39;t refute or corroborate my point at all. They make no difference to what I was saying. I never said that you could not lose weight on a low carb diet, and neither did the study that I posted.


    Also, the studies that you said make sense due to the fact that most overweight people are insulin resistant, thus doing better on low carb. Your points don&#39;t argue with anything I was actually saying.


    Also, as for the second study you mentioned, you should watch the video of the guy from stanford presenting his study. He actually goes through most of the studies you mentioned there and states how the study I presented in my first post to be extremely interesting.


    Anyway, many body builders do get "ripped" on a high carb diet. It isn&#39;t just for bulking. Why don&#39;t you head over to bodybuilding.com and read some faq&#39;s. I read one over there saying to limit fat intake to 10%!!!!


    Here is the vid that I mentioned about the guy presenting his study.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo


    Also,the fact that those people were just eating slightly less carbs in the one group makes the results even more impressive. If they limited their carbs even more then it is quite possible that the results would be even more definitive.


    Also, just because people lost weight without restricting calories on a low carb diet doesn&#39;t mean that they didn&#39;t actually restrict calories. It just means that they didn&#39;t go out of their way to do it.


  10. #10
    bobbylight's Avatar
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    Here is a link to the obesity research site I was talking about. Sorry about that.


    http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=lowcarbdiets&cdn=health&tm=4&f=22&su= p284.9.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/4/703


    if you go to the search bar and search the name of the study I linked, you can find the whole thing.


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