Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: confused... page

  1. #1
    Ransom's Avatar
    Ransom is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    189

    confused...

    Shop Now
    Ok, so I just found the Mark Sisson Fanpage on Facebook and there are several short videos posted - one of which is this:

    YouTube - ‪Mark Sisson: Abadon all grains, eat more fat‬‏

    If you watch it (it's really short) he says at one point that, in regards to cholesterol, he and those who eat this diet show a lowering of overall cholesterol, a lowering of triglycerides, and a raising of HDL. He says that his are "well within the healthy range."

    Now, I'm confused about this because, whereas my triglycerides have gone down and my HDL has gone up, my overall cholesterol and LDL are NOT with the "healthy" range. However, all my ratios are great and I know that I have Pattern A LDL.

    Am I doing something wrong here as my overall cholesterol and LDL are so high? I've posted my VAP test results below. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Basic diet consists of fatty and not fatty meats (beef, chicken, pork, fish), avocado, butter, coconut oil, bacon fat, veggies (mostly broccoli, green beans, peppers, mushroom, sweet potatoes after working out), little nuts (mostly macadamia), occasional dark chocolate. That's all I can think of for now. Thanks!



    Total Cholesterol: 337
    Trigs: 54
    HDL: 77
    LDL: 246 (Density Pattern A!)
    VLDL: 14
    Combined LDL + VLDL: 260

    Ratios:
    Total/HDL: 4.38 (Ideal 5 or less)
    Trig/HGL: .70 (Ideal 2 or less)
    LDL/HDL: Either 3.19 or 3.38 depending on if I use 246 or 260 - I wasn't sure which to use (Ideal 4.3 or less)

    Oh, and one more thing - not sure if it's important but:

    Apollpoproteins

    ApoB100: 158
    ApoA1: 184
    Ratio of the two: .86 (the results say .92 or less is Ideal)
    Strength and Honor

  2. #2
    jaysond's Avatar
    jaysond is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    209
    cant answer your question but that video was AWESOME! love it! WATCHED IT 2 wice!

    i went primal in feb 2010
    200lbs
    37% body fat
    38-40 waist

    1 year to the day
    140lbs
    7.8% body fat
    29 waist

    currently
    137lbs
    7% body fat
    29 waist

  3. #3
    Hedonist's Avatar
    Hedonist is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sacramento, California
    Posts
    2,930
    Read this thread. Griff is da man when it comes to cholesterol.
    Ancestral Health Info

    I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

    Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

  4. #4
    Waskydiver's Avatar
    Waskydiver is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    131
    I think I understand the confusion.

    There appear to be two different messages generated here:

    1) By going primal, you can expect to see a lowering of cholesterol.

    But, as people are reporting their own cholesterol raising, the message becomes:

    2) Oh... well... high cholesterol doesn't really matter that much any way.

    Now, Griff (perhaps indirectly) addresses this apparent contradiction in the model of cholesterol being a healing mechinism. (I believe the analogy he uses is that cholesterol is like little firemen running around in your body, healing damaged cells).

    So, prior to going primal, we would have been causing a lot of damage through blood sugar and insulin spikes. However, following the recomendations of standard diets, we were attempting to keep our dietary cholesterol low. We had a lot of fires, but very few firemen.

    We go primal, and introduce more fats and dietary cholesterol, and we now have a lot more firemen, patching up a lot more of the damage that was caused of the year. We go tot he doctor during this time, and... Oh Oh... you better send your firemen the pink slips.

    But, if you give it time, and let the cholesterol complete the repairs, then your cholesterol will go down to "healthy" levels.

    Now, understand that this is just a model that I made up, completely in my head. It very well may be completely wrong. It's just what I use, in my mind to try to resolve the apparent contradictions.

  5. #5
    gumbogirl's Avatar
    gumbogirl is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    36
    Great video....But what was that turd looking thing on the plate with the bread and pasta???

  6. #6
    Zophie's Avatar
    Zophie is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    moab ut.
    Posts
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbogirl View Post
    Great video....But what was that turd looking thing on the plate with the bread and pasta???
    Ya.... what WAS that turd???

  7. #7
    Ransom's Avatar
    Ransom is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedonist View Post
    Read this thread. Griff is da man when it comes to cholesterol.
    Read it long before I posted this question, but thanks! I did all the math and my ratios are all better than the ideal ratio. However, that doesn't answer the question of why my total and LDL is so high. If Mark's is "well within healthy levels" then I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. I don't think I'm gonna drop dead of a heart attack or anything but I'm sure my total and LDL could stand to be a little lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waskydiver View Post
    I think I understand the confusion.

    There appear to be two different messages generated here:

    1) By going primal, you can expect to see a lowering of cholesterol.

    But, as people are reporting their own cholesterol raising, the message becomes:

    2) Oh... well... high cholesterol doesn't really matter that much any way.

    Now, Griff (perhaps indirectly) addresses this apparent contradiction in the model of cholesterol being a healing mechinism. (I believe the analogy he uses is that cholesterol is like little firemen running around in your body, healing damaged cells).

    So, prior to going primal, we would have been causing a lot of damage through blood sugar and insulin spikes. However, following the recomendations of standard diets, we were attempting to keep our dietary cholesterol low. We had a lot of fires, but very few firemen.

    We go primal, and introduce more fats and dietary cholesterol, and we now have a lot more firemen, patching up a lot more of the damage that was caused of the year. We go tot he doctor during this time, and... Oh Oh... you better send your firemen the pink slips.

    But, if you give it time, and let the cholesterol complete the repairs, then your cholesterol will go down to "healthy" levels.

    Now, understand that this is just a model that I made up, completely in my head. It very well may be completely wrong. It's just what I use, in my mind to try to resolve the apparent contradictions.
    Your analogy makes sense and I'm glad you see the seeming contradiction as well. I've only been primal for about a year now but have been at a healthy weight since my sophomore year of college (about six years). However, up until a year ago I did that with high protein, whole grain breads and some veggies, and moderate to low fat. I guess it's possible that I've done enough damage that my body is still repairing itself from all that grain. Hopefully my numbers will go down on their own. I contacted Mark with my question and asked what one's numbers should generally be on the PB and what some common mistakes are in food choices people make thinking they're primal that raise cholesterol. I got a response saying he would try to write a blog post about it so we'll see!
    Strength and Honor

  8. #8
    beachrat's Avatar
    beachrat is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    545
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
    I contacted Mark with my question and asked what one's numbers should generally be on the PB and what some common mistakes are in food choices people make thinking they're primal that raise cholesterol. I got a response saying he would try to write a blog post about it so we'll see!
    Great! I hope he does. I recently had my numbers done and didn't insist on a VAP. My regular doctor is not crazy about my overall level and is Very Concerned about my outrageous (calculated) LDLs.

    My ratios are amazing and I reduced triglycerides from 146 the last time they were measured (2009) to 81 (May 2011). HDL is 71. So I am ignoring his Concern. Personally I rationalized it for myself pretty much the same way Waskydiver does.

    But I would like to know if this is just a phase (primal since roughly Oct 2010) per our firemen and transition theories, if there's some dietary adjustment that might be worth considering, or some other way to square the circle.
    "If man made it, don't eat it." ..Jack LaLanne
    "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are.
    If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." ..Richard Feynman

    beachrat's primal journal

  9. #9
    nachobrawler's Avatar
    nachobrawler is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    863
    I have been primal for 6 months now. And I have yet to have my blood tested. I want to do so as I have made a great deal of physical progress on the outside (I'm down 40lbs from when I started). I would like to see how the primal living has affected my blood work (i.e. insides).

    As for your question, Ransom, I agree. It is a perplexing conundrum. HDL is up, Triglycerides are down and all the ratios are correct. But total and LDL are sky high. I thought I read somewhere in Griff's post or elsewhere... that in reality...who cares how high LDL is. LDL isn't the bad guy its been labeled to be and total cholesterol is miscalculated nowadays. So, some of the stigma around the numbers is just continued CW bullshit. And you probably shouldn't let it bother you at all.Or at least as much as it does. However, that is easy for me to say as your numbers aren't my numbers. How would I feel if I got tested and checked in with a total cholesterol of 400 & LDL of 250? I honestly cant say yet.

    What it comes down to is a question of faitho you have faith in Primal as "the" healthy lifestyle we humans should use as our means to live?
    If you can just get your....mind together....then come on across to me.....
    James Marshall (Jimi)Hendrix

  10. #10
    peril's Avatar
    peril is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    2,677
    PrimalCon New York
    The problem here is that we really don' know what are the healthy ranges for TC and LDL. The medical bodies would have us believe in low upper bounds (eg 160 and 80 mg/dL, respectively for those like me who've had a primary vascular event) and no lower bounds. But there is plenty of evidence out there showing that low values are correlated with increases in all-cause death, as are high values. But these correlations are fairly weak and there have been no studies where they test different classifications, such as LDL profile A vs profile B for different ranges of TC and LDL. On the other hand, recent research is showing that higher cholesterol is negatively correlated with mortality in the elderly.

    So we have the understanding that we have damaged vascular systems from years of malnutrition and that LDL is involved in the repair so is expected to be present. We just don't know for how long and at what level and we know that it freaks out physicians and causes insurers to rub their hands together. Unfortunately we just have to hope for some rapid advances in knowledge to bring some sanity to this
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •