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    Proud Neandertaler's Avatar
    Proud Neandertaler is offline Junior Member
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    Losing Fat

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    Hey folks!
    Would I lose fat if I ate 6oz of bacon and 3 eggs for breakfast, a salad with 6oz chicken, tuna and greens for lunch and a 16oz ribeye with veggies for supper?
    This would be about 3000calories but low to zero carbs, can I eat more than my BMR and avoid carbs and lose fat? They always say that a calorie is a calorie...

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    Daemonized's Avatar
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    Absolutely you could eat 3000 calories a day avoid carbs and still lose weight. You'll just need to make sure that you're active enough to burn off the extra calories.

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    I doubt it unless, as Daemonized says, you're a demon in the gym. Calories do still matter. If that's in excess of your total burn for the day, then you may even gain, though less that you would if you were eating 3000 calories of carby stuff. I think going low carb gives you an advantage but it doesn't allow you to eat until you're stuffed and still burn off excess body fat. It can definitely help you lose weight without feeling horribly deprived and losing your muscle mass, though.

    On the bright side, your butcher would love you.

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    It depends on your status as a sugar-burner versus succeeding at being a fat-burner.

    If your body is used to running on carbs, then your liver will take all that meat and turn it to sugar. It's called "gluconeogenesis." It's also pretty hard work for the liver, plus it's frustrating to be eating zero carbs (but absolute TONS of protein) and find oneself not losing weight. Even though the liver has produced the sugar itself, it can be fooled BY the sugar it just made, so that insulin goes way up and you store than meat-turned-sugar as fat. It doesn't seem fair, but there it is.

    You'd do better, IMO, eating plenty of lard, unsalted butter, coconut oil, etc., but keep the protein to more modest levels. A 4-oz. steak, not a 16 oz. steak.

    And sometimes a carb refeed twice a week can keep everything running better. Make it a relatively low fat and low protein meal, because the insulin from the carb will have you storing anything else you eat.

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    quelsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piano-doctor-lady View Post
    It depends on your status as a sugar-burner versus succeeding at being a fat-burner.

    If your body is used to running on carbs, then your liver will take all that meat and turn it to sugar. It's called "gluconeogenesis." It's also pretty hard work for the liver, plus it's frustrating to be eating zero carbs (but absolute TONS of protein) and find oneself not losing weight. Even though the liver has produced the sugar itself, it can be fooled BY the sugar it just made, so that insulin goes way up and you store than meat-turned-sugar as fat. It doesn't seem fair, but there it is.

    You'd do better, IMO, eating plenty of lard, unsalted butter, coconut oil, etc., but keep the protein to more modest levels. A 4-oz. steak, not a 16 oz. steak.

    And sometimes a carb refeed twice a week can keep everything running better. Make it a relatively low fat and low protein meal, because the insulin from the carb will have you storing anything else you eat.
    i need references on why you woudl trend toward conversion of protien to glucose. help please
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    Going zero to low carbs helps in that you transition from burning sugars to fat.

    But, the main benefit of a low carb/high fat diet is that it stabilizes your blood sugar and insulin levels, and it makes it so you are not as hungry as often. You will naturally be less inclined to over eat.

    But, be careful: This reduced inclination to over eat is based on a person's physiological needs for food. It has nothing to do with the psychological needs.

    So, if a person is used to feeding themselves for comfort, or as a reward, or out of boredom, a high fat, low carb diet is going to be a lot less effective at curbing appetite. And, they may see weight gain on even zero carbs because they are eating more foods than the body is asking for.

    You need to learn to listen to your body, and eat when you are hungry, and stop eating when you are full. Yes… my mother was wrong. Me “cleaning my plate”, and eating to the point of obesity is not going to help the starving children in Ethiopia one bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waskydiver View Post
    You need to learn to listen to your body, and eat when you are hungry, and stop eating when you are full.
    I think it's worth discussing what "full" means in the context of weight loss and maintenance. For me to lose weight, full means just sated. I'm no longer hungry. For maintenance, I can go a little beyond that but not much. If I eat until my stomach actually feels noticeably full, I gain weight. Your mileage may very, but I think getting to know what is full for your body is a handy tool for keeping your eating on track.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    i need references on why you woudl trend toward conversion of protien to glucose. help please
    Partly it was my own experience on a low carb LOW CALORIE diet which was a total disaster. I showed signs of protein lack even though I was eating wonderful healthy grassfed organic type protein three or four times a day.

    I've seen the theory in many blogs these days, but a good place to start might be with the Perfect Health Diet people, the Jaminets. They explain that any animal, carnivore, omnivore, or herbivore, really lives off medium-chain fatty acids. Everyone needs some carb because red blood cells and neurons don't have mitochondria, so they must live on glucose or ketones. Carnivores get the carb for blood and brain by converting protein into glucose and fat into ketones; but then, they have little brains and big livers. Humans have more trouble with zero-carb because we have little livers and great big voracious brains which need more glucose or ketones. We can manage it, some better than others, but it's a big strain. Then there are the herbivores. Though they eat carbs all day (some of which, the cellulose, we can't digest) they themselves don't live off any of the carb. It all goes to feed the flora in those multiple stomachs (fermenting vats) and long guts. They themselves still live off the medium-chain fats which are released when the flora break up the starch and cellulose.

    I found it all fascinating.

    You can probably find some of this on their website, but I'd recommend buying their book if you felt like it. They have a lot of good ideas and they do research.

    About Us | Perfect Health Diet
    Last edited by piano-doctor-lady; 06-01-2011 at 12:22 PM.

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    P.S. why someone who carries a whole bunch of fat might convert protein to sugar instead of living off the fat -- been there, done that ...

    If your liver is congested with fat and you suffer from a leaky gut, and you are carrying a lot of excess belly fat, it's almost certain that you are insulin resistant and leptin resistant, so your insulin levels are high. High insulin keeps you from being able to dip into the adipose fat stores. Leptin resistance means that even though your leptin levels are through the roof, your brain can't hear them. It thinks you are starving. Metabolic syndrome ... you can't manage to burn the fat, so you just keep breaking sugar out of the protein, including your own muscle protein. Byron Richards explains a variety of strategies to get the energy moving through your cells again. He wrote a book called "Mastering Leptin".

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyEater View Post
    I think it's worth discussing what "full" means in the context of weight loss and maintenance. For me to lose weight, full means just sated. I'm no longer hungry. For maintenance, I can go a little beyond that but not much. If I eat until my stomach actually feels noticeably full, I gain weight. Your mileage may very, but I think getting to know what is full for your body is a handy tool for keeping your eating on track.
    I absolutely agree...

    For a long time, for me, "full" meant stopping eating just before my stomach actually hurt. And, never... NEVER experiencing the horrors of an empty stomach. I would find myself waking up at 2AM, having to eat a doughnut because my stomach was empty, and I couldn't sleep because of it.

    Now, I try to stop when I am still feeling a bit hungry still. Then I wait 15 minutes. If I am still hungry after 15 minutes, I'll eat a little more.

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