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Thread: Results vs Time article - thoughts? page

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    TigerJ's Avatar
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    Results vs Time article - thoughts?

    Primal Fuel
    Results Versus Time | Drew Baye's High Intensity Training

    Most important points:

    "If training is performed with a sufficiently high level of effort very little volume is required to stimulate the maximum possible improvements in fitness and functional ability. Although the optimum training volume varies between individuals based on genetics and other factors, on average it is far below what most people believe is necessary and what they are told by the mainstream fitness media and most personal trainers and “experts”. Compared to what most people believe is necessary for an effective workout the HIT workouts we have our clients do are very brief."

    ...

    "A properly performed high intensity training program will produce results that are equal to or better than what is possible with typical, higher volume exercise programs in a small fraction of the time and with far less frequency. Most high intensity training programs consist of only two or three weekly workouts requiring less than thirty minutes to complete, and some trainees get better results A properly performed high intensity training program will produce results that are equal to or better than what is possible with typical, higher volume exercise programs in a small fraction of the time and with far less frequency. Most high intensity training programs consist of only two or three weekly workouts requiring less than thirty minutes to complete, and some trainees get better results working out for as little as ten to fifteen minutes once weekly or less." (bold added)

    Thoughts? I *like* working out and am in best shape ever. But workout 5 times a week, sometimes 6! I usually do 3 gym workouts that total about an hour (with plenty of walk around time between sets) then 1-2 lighter kettlebell workouts in a week. Sometimes rowing machine or very occasionally hill runs.

    What do you make of this? Is 15 minutes a week all that is required for maintenance once you reach a certain amount of your genetic potential? I was really out of shape 6 months ago and highly doubt 15 minutes per week would have gotten me where I am today.

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    Drew Baye's Avatar
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    This depends on how hard you train. If intensity is sufficient, fifteen minutes won't just maintain, it will stimulate continued improvements. This was just an example. The optimal amount and frequency varies between individuals and you might find you make good progress doing more or possibly even less than this.

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    15 minutes.... it has been proven that it takes just under 2 seconds to complete a full recruitment of muscle fibres to failure if the load is heavy enough.

    My best results came from spending 20 seconds a week under load and thirty minutes setting the weights for the different routines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJ View Post
    Thoughts? I *like* working out and am in best shape ever. But workout 5 times a week, sometimes 6! I usually do 3 gym workouts that total about an hour (with plenty of walk around time between sets) then 1-2 lighter kettlebell workouts in a week. Sometimes rowing machine or very occasionally hill runs.

    What do you make of this? Is 15 minutes a week all that is required for maintenance once you reach a certain amount of your genetic potential? I was really out of shape 6 months ago and highly doubt 15 minutes per week would have gotten me where I am today.
    Five to six times a week for an hour each sounds more like recreation than a high intensity anaerobic workout. 15 minutes is about all you'll be able to stand in a truly high intensity workout. HIT is brutal. Or, more generically, hitting your anaerobic pathways is brutal -- think Tabata's 170% VO2max. It goes beyond the muscle burning that a lot of people don't even get to. That last impossible rep -- with the muscles burning and as many other muscles contracted -- has to be attempted as if your life depended on it. It's mentally draining. I've seen people new to HIT give it up because they simply couldn't handle it mentally, despite the results.

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    As Drew said, and the article alluded to, it is series of variables rather than absolutes that will determine "results" in any given situation. Is there a complex relationship between intensity, volume and time - of course.

    TigerJ - you may be in your best shape ever following this programme but the acid test is to compare this against others.

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    js290, I don't work out 1 hour per day. Gym workouts are about 1 hour and usually 3 times a week. Then usually kbells or rowing machine on other days which is 20 minutes max, otherwise rest day.

    Reasons:
    1. I sit at desk at day and work at home, so if I don't get up and get moving get restless.
    2. Like to workout because it feels good. Endorphins. Stress relief, sleep better, etc.
    3. I guess if someone said you could have same muscle/strength gains in 15 mins per week only; or workout 5 times a week and have more relaxation, stress relief, positive brain chemicals, etc; I would do latter for these additional benefits beyond strict muscle gain.
    4. I am not doing HIT. It is general barbell program with plenty of rest between sets. I have no desire to train with barbells crossfit style, ie in a hurry. Makes no sense to me. But weights and reps are sufficiently exhausting; ie, not exactly recreation when I am done. Then kbells usually at least 30 secs between sets. Again I don't really want to do nonstop snatch test every kbell workout. But still plenty vigorous.

    OK Coach, find me some others with comparable metrics. Age 39, started lifting first time ever Jan 2010. Above 1x bodyweight bench, at 1.5 squat, just under 2.0 dead in less than 6 months lifting. Could it be more? Sure, others probably have made faster gains. But are all those people at age 39? Probably not. I can handle 20 minutes + on rowing machine and kbell VO2 max snatching (with ligher bell but that is how it is done). Point is I have made good strength and conditioning gains in last 6 months. Maybe people doing 5x5 and eating a ton have more strength gains but their conditioning and bodyfat levels sub-par.

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    Drew - thanks for replying. Do you have any actual examples of before and afters with people training 15 minutes a week or less? Just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJ View Post
    Reasons:
    2. Like to workout because it feels good. Endorphins. Stress relief, sleep better, etc.
    I definitely believe those are the best reasons for physical activity. But, I wouldn't call such activities exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJ View Post
    3. I guess if someone said you could have same muscle/strength gains in 15 mins per week only; or workout 5 times a week and have more relaxation, stress relief, positive brain chemicals, etc; I would do latter for these additional benefits beyond strict muscle gain.
    A lot of people confuse neurological efficiency for strength gains. Most progress experienced by beginners are the former. The latter involves growing new muscle fibers and/or increasing your existing glycogen stores. There are intrinsic benefits of getting strong and building as much muscle as your genetics will allow. The question becomes what is the most effective way to do that? That is to ask, how does one stimulate protein synthesis in the body?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJ View Post
    4. I am not doing HIT. It is general barbell program with plenty of rest between sets. I have no desire to train with barbells crossfit style, ie in a hurry. Makes no sense to me. But weights and reps are sufficiently exhausting; ie, not exactly recreation when I am done. Then kbells usually at least 30 secs between sets. Again I don't really want to do nonstop snatch test every kbell workout. But still plenty vigorous.
    The fact that you go to the gym so often indicates most, if any, of your sessions are not HIT. Crossfit is not HIT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJ View Post
    I can handle 20 minutes + on rowing machine and kbell VO2 max snatching (with ligher bell but that is how it is done).
    How do you measure VO2max?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJ View Post
    Drew - thanks for replying. Do you have any actual examples of before and afters with people training 15 minutes a week or less? Just curious.
    Ellington Darden's websites have some before and after.

    http://drdardenfitness.com/success-stories
    Last edited by js290; 05-31-2011 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJ View Post

    OK Coach, find me some others with comparable metrics. Age 39, started lifting first time ever Jan 2010. Above 1x bodyweight bench, at 1.5 squat, just under 2.0 dead in less than 6 months lifting. Could it be more? Sure, others probably have made faster gains. But are all those people at age 39? Probably not. I can handle 20 minutes + on rowing machine and kbell VO2 max snatching (with ligher bell but that is how it is done). Point is I have made good strength and conditioning gains in last 6 months. Maybe people doing 5x5 and eating a ton have more strength gains but their conditioning and bodyfat levels sub-par.
    What are you talking about? You completely missed the point of my post. I'm simply saying that it is possible to achieve comparable or better results in less time than you are currently committing. Would 15 minutes do it? Only you'll be able to answer that.

    You asked a question about training then get all defensive about your "results". Why bother asking in the first place?

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    Um, you said my results don't matter unless I compared it to others. So I gave you some stats on where I'm at. Why is this 'defensive?'

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