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    What do you guys think about people that eat grains that are in much better shape than yourself? What about professional athletes that are on high carb diets that involve grains?


    Are these people actually not healthy? Are they secretly killing themselves wearing a veil of pasta and rice?


    Can you guys admit that people can be very healthy and in great shape while eating a high carb diet heavy in grains? Or do they just seem healthy, and are not actually healthy?


    And if you think they aren't actually healthy and they just seem healthy, how do you know they aren't actually the healthy ones and you fall into the group that just "appears" healthy.


  2. #2
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    Why are the Japanese healthy when they eat lots of rice and little fat?

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    Because you can be healthy on a diet that isn&#39;t primal...but no one seems to recognize that here.


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    @bobbylight - I don&#39;t know if I can answer that question for myself, but Mark&#39;s own experiences as an athlete on such a diet should be of interest, if you don&#39;t know about them already.


    In my own experience, I was a &#39;fit&#39; person on a diet of lots of whole grains, lean meat, fish, veg and fruit and I felt unwell, was overweight despite all the exercise I was taking and was suffering with all kinds of intestinal problems. Now I eat no grains and very, very limited dairy, have lost 25 pounds in 6 weeks and have never felt better. This way of eating works for me.


    If you are truly having serious doubts about this way of eating and living, why not go back to how you were before?


  5. #5
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    I will agree that people can be healthy on a high carb diet. But not a high carb diet based upon grains we use like wheat.


    The kitavans show that eating 70% of ones calories from tubers has no apparent negative health effects. There are traditional asian populations that are healthy on rice based diets. However, I am unaware of any traditional populations that use wheat as staple. And it seems like where ever wheat goes, the diseases of civilization follow.


    And to compare people on this forum to pro athletes is somewhat pointless. It should also be noted that athletes tend to die younger than average folk.


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    An interesting article on this: http://ryan-koch.blogspot.com/2009/03/can-high-carb-low-fat-be-healthy.html


    What I&#39;m getting at here, in a long-winded, haphazard sort-of-way, is this working theory:


    * Fructose in excessive quantities (i.e. standard American diet) is detrimental to human health.

    * Starch alone is not detrimental to human health.

    * A high-carbohydrate, starch-based diet -- that includes animal proteins & fats -- is a viable diet for long-term health.

    * Human beings can thrive on a wide variety of diets -- a high-fructose diet does not seem to be one of them.
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    Don&#39;t get me wrong here, but have you actually read the PB?


    I&#39;ll admit I haven&#39;t BUT I spent a long time reading through the articles on this site, and I&#39;m also nearly finished reading "Good Calories, Bad Calories"


    I think reading will be your best bet to understanding why "we" think as we do.

    It&#39;s a lot to condense into one thread!


    If you read through some of the journals on here too, there are people that have struggled all their lives with weight or health issues, and this lifestyle is helping them. Now that doesn&#39;t prove cause and effect, but it is surely worth a shot?


    Personally, I feel better.


    Why don&#39;t you suspend disbelief for a month and see how you go?


  8. #8
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    I just don&#39;t know. Personally I like the diet I am eating now, and it is fully primal. I plan on keeping this diet until it stops working or until I reach my goal weight, and then I will tweak it.


    I don&#39;t mean to stir up too much controversy. I realize that some people do much better on a low carb diet. I don&#39;t disagree with this. I also think that there are a lot of people that do much better on a diet with more carbs. I just think that a lot of people here are missing that.


    Fruit is good for you. Nuts are good for you. If you are rationalizing cutting these completely out of your diet (or limiting them extremely) then you should probably look at your reasoning behind that. Other than diabetes or some allergy there should be no reason to cut these out. Some of the people here don&#39;t even eat vegetables, just meat. That is not beneficial for health, and I have no idea why anyone would think it is. The O3:O6 ratio is either complete BS, or it barely matters at all (research seems to back this up). Nightshades are not bad for you.


    Basically, Mark makes good points and for his body he seems to have a great diet. The diet he promotes seems to work well for him and a large amount of people that follow it. But a lot of people here seem to be taking some of his theories here to an extreme.


    Some examples: well carbs are bad so I will eat basically none of them.


    The O3:O6 ratio is so important I will not eat nuts because it will hurt this ratio.


    Nightshades are bad and should not be eaten.


    But, in reality, Mark eats lots of nightshades, a lot of veggies and fruit, and he even eats a good amount of nuts.


  9. #9
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    Ry, you said "It should also be noted that athletes tend to die younger than average folk. "


    Do you have any evidence for this? I have never heard this and it doesn&#39;t seem to make sense to me. I&#39;m not saying it isn&#39;t true, but where did you get that info from?


  10. #10
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    Raphael, I completely agree with what you quoted. Fructose is only bad in high quantities (like the ones you get from a western diet full of soda). You could probably eat 5 pieces of fruit a day and be perfectly healthy.


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