Ex-vegan seeking advice page 5

[Ajax]

This is the topic of my dissertation - people who believe things despite evidence to the contrary, or no supporting evidence. It's both fascinating and sad.

Griff, that's fascinating! Are you focusing on any specific culture/belief system?

[Dragonfly]

Hi Dragonfly,

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Zoe:

What motivated you to get off of veganism/vegetarianism, and did you switch from vegan to primal? If so, did you have trouble transitioning? Did you go through the carb flu that Griff references?

I switched from being a vegetarian (14 yrs) in 1996. I was very sick with allergies and my intuition told me I needed to eat meat. Not a huge transition for me to Primal, as I'd been eating a WAP-style diet for over a year prior. I didn't experience carb flu until I dropped my carbs below 50 gm/day--and then it was really only a day or two of feeling crappy.

[apple]

I left veganism because I concluded that the diet itself must be highly inflammatory. I was vegan, and high-raw at that, when I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease. I had an ulcerated ileum (the area making up the very end of the small intestine). Within 10 months I was diagnosed with diabetes--another autoimmune condition. I am now insulin dependent for life. So it made sense that a vegan diet was not a disease preventative diet, and that it no longer was a good fit for me (low carb obviously being a better choice for blood glucose control).

Also, there have been studies done on rats (or mice, I think) fed a mostly fruit diet. They were autopsied and found to have the fatty livers of alcoholics. Fructose is broken down by the liver only. A high fructose diet is lower glycemic because the sugar is not broken down in the stomach and small intestine the way other sugars are, but must be processed by the liver. But they are eventually broken down, and have the same eventual impact on your blood sugar, with the added bonus of working your liver over time. You wouldn't drink high fructose corn syrup, would you? Then why would you overeat high fructose fruits? Fructose is fructose, it doesn't matter what the source.

[Bevaboo]

Another former vegetarian, here. I was actually a lacto-vegetarian in principle, which just meant I had cream in my coffee when I drank it about once a month. I originally went vegetarian in an effort to lose weight, but a funny thing happened.

I was in a serious car accident, was comatose for a couple weeks and broke many bones. When I gained full consciousness (meaning I was fully awake; my head was still pretty foggy, though), I had been about 6 weeks without solid food. My BF at the time, didn't think to mention my eating choices to the hospital, because, well, eating wasn't really an issue for awhile, lol. My doctors prescribed a diet to help me regain my strength, heal my bones. Think lots of milk, eggs and meat, along loads of spinach and nutrient-dense veggies. I'd just been in a coma, so my thinking wasn't all that clear, and I just ate what they served me.

My BF went ape-s*** when he realized what I'd been eating, had them change my diet to fully vegan. I complained, even though he'd explained to me what our eating habits had been like, and I got my protein back. I'm not sure, but I think that my turning to steak was another nail in the coffin of our relationship. Now that I've fully recovered, I have most of my memories back, and I totally remember being a self-righteous vegetarian to lose weight. I went from 125# to 145# during that time, though I lost all of that while comatose, so it worked out. Except for having to pay a $10,000 copay for my hospital stay, but never mind the details.

I don't remember going through any of the issues you're dealing with, probably didn't with the medical issues and all, but I've been there as far as being totally convinced that I was feeding myself correctly. And I understand about loving fruit so much. I so understand that part of it! Have you thought about replacing your fruit snacks with veggies like carrots, broccoli, nuts, etc., where you still get a little bit of a carb fix, maybe just enough to take the edge off? And pair the lower carb veggie with a boiled egg or something with a decent amount of fat and protein, to keep your blood levels stable?

I wonder if part of your trouble is psychological, too? I can see you've come to the conclusion that you need protein and fat on an intellectual level, but maybe you need to come to grips with that on an emotional level, too? It's not as simple as saying to yourself, "Okay, I'm going to eat totally different food than what I've been used to now." If that were the case, I could have stuck with the billion low fat diets I've started in my lifetime. Going primal is an easy transition if you only have to change a couple things, but you're doing a complete 180.

[zoebird]

What motivated you to get off of veganism? What motivated you to get off of veganism, and did you switch from vegan to primal? If so, did you have trouble transitioning? Did you go through the carb flu that Griff references?

I went vegan 3 months after going vegetarian. I remained vegan for 5 years. This was strictly vegan -- no fish, no eggs, you name it. The strictest definition (the way you are defining it -- having fish occasionally, etc, is not the veganism I practiced). After that, my cholesterol got too low, and i started to ahve secondary symptoms. I chose to eat eggs and dairy.

I was a whole foods vegan -- mostly raw, mostly fruits and veggies, grains and beans each day, but not much. i didn't do well on starchy stuff. makes me feel lethargic.

So, i went back to ovo-lacto vegetarian -- still no meat. Did this for 5 more years. Moved to NZ.

In NZ, i was eating a lot of rice-cheese-veggies and bread-eggs-veggies as my meals, plus some fruit. I was healthy and happy with my body, weight, health, etc -- but Dh was having serious reactions to grains. and, I was hungry all the time. So, i started to look around for an integrated way of eating (DH always was an omnivore, btw), that would work well for our family.

I stumbled upon paleo -- which made a lot of sense to me -- and we took the plunge in Nov.

I didn't notice that I had the carb flu. I also didn't have the *super amazing energy more than I've ever had before!* thing that people talk about (i didn't have it with veganism, or raw foods, or whatever else either). I would say I have good energy overall. It wasn't a concern for me.

i had no trouble transitioning, and i immediately noticed changes in my body composition. In a few weeks, i lost an inch off my waist and a few percentages of body fat.

now i'm about 19% body fat (possibly 18-20), and have a 26 inch waist. I'm quite happy with my health and measurements. DH's grain-and-skin conditions cleared up within a month or two, and everyone is happy and healthy.

[aktres]

Ok, I gave you some blogs so I had to go check out 30BD. OMG! I had heard of it but I didn't realize it was an actual whole community of fruit eaters. That is the saddest site I have ever seen. I feel very sorry for them.

[huntergirlhayden]

Former Raw Vegan. Its a great healing diet if balanced, but after a while you're healed and it's time to start living. After reading your posts and comments I can see you're still very much in the "cooked food is poison" mindset, even if those words haven't come through. There are so many types of raw foodists as well as raw vegans that everyone ends up getting confused on who's "raw glow" is the brightest. I was in the Gabriel Cousens camp, all low glycemic veg, limited low glycemic fruits and nuts. I ended up severely underweight and protein deficient. Actually spent a few days in the hospital after a collapse and then months in the doctors office suffering with re-feeding syndrome. When I started RAW was a great thing, totally cleared out my system, but once my system was cleared...Well, my body had to start eating itself. I never went fruititarian or even close because I ad brainwashed myself into extreme fear of any fruit that had a glycemic index rating of more than 20. Apples made it into my diet once a month at most, a moderate glycemic impact fruit that I would literally berate myself for eating for hours. If I'd just been stronger, why did I give in to the temptation, you can't cleans with sugar in your system feeding the candida.... On and on it went.
I say all that to say this. RAW is a mindset, borderline obsession almost, and it takes a while to break that habit, those thoughts, Paleo/Primal is a great way to transition your thinking and your living into a healthier lifestyle. Good luck to you and keep looking for your own answers.
Don't let anyone tell you exactly how it will work for you because thats exactly how it worked for them. It's your body, you're living in it, treat it well.

[Griff]

Here's one way to increase fat that might not trigger you quite so badly. Have coconut oil. Most of the good ones have a slight coconut flavor and scent, and one or two spoonfuls is enough to quiet the carb cravings for a while.

[Griff]

Ok, I gave you some blogs so I had to go check out 30BD. OMG! I had heard of it but I didn't realize it was an actual whole community of fruit eaters. That is the saddest site I have ever seen. I feel very sorry for them.

What, 30 Batsh*ts a Day? Yeah...

[Paleobird]

What, 30 Batsh*ts a Day? Yeah...

The first time I saw that site (only because it was referenced on MDA), I thought it was some kind of elaborate gag set up by some primal people as a spoof. Then I figured out that these people actually believe what they are saying. Holy Cr*p. What will they think of next?