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Thread: Calorie Counting Revisited : Distillation and Update page 6

  1. #51
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    Great post, this will help others for a long time. You've addressed many concerns here.

    One thing I think that gets overlooked is "Fat Loss" vs "Weight Loss". I was trying to drop my final 10 lbs a while back, so I started upping fat, cutting carbs, restricting calories to 1500 (I'm a 6', 180lbs male). Within a week, my weight shot up 6 lbs and stayed there for 2 weeks, I started exercising more and restricting calories further, and it went up another 4 lbs in a few days.

    When you look at this rationally, it is physically impossible to pack on 10lbs of pure fat in 10 days while in a calorie deficit. The weight gain has to be from muscle gain (not likely 10lbs in 2 weeks) or water gain.

    Upon advice from you guys, I upped my calories to 2400 with about 150 grams protein and 50-100g carbs daily, I stayed at the same weight for 2 weeks not budging outside the 185-187 range. Then last week, all went back to normal and I lost 7 lbs in 2 days. Now I'm sitting at 180, and seem to be on track to lose the last 10lbs.

    What I've learned from all this, is that if you are eating right and exercising, don't sweat the weight gain--it isn't fat gain and it will really screw you up to treat it as excess fat. I'm positive this is why Atkins and the rest have such a high failure rate, they don't address minor setbacks in water gain. When a person gets the daily high of watching the scale go down, down, down, then with no changes in eating habits it goes up, up, up -- they say "This diet is a bunch of crap! Where my Twinkies at?"

    Anyway, learning HAS occured.

    Thanks

  2. #52
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    Excellent post! The body can't let go of stored fat if you take in what the body needs, so for a few of us who stall easily, cutting cals is a must. I got so much grief when I shared what I was eating just to maintain, that I wouldn't say how low I really had to go. Now if I could have done a hike up a mountain every day, that might have changed, but sometimes you just can't do enough to get the fat to let go unless you restrict overall cals. I'm very happy for those who don't have to do this, but there's a spectrum in everything. Congrats on the loss.
    This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
    Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelda View Post
    Paleo

    Yep, I can vouch for yoga, an excellent stress-reliever and yes you are quite right it's down to the invidual on how you deal with stress I think I cracked that one (see my Primacy of the Individual and Parenting post) now just have to let the hormones settle again!!!

    We shall see if I now get back on track. The 10-30-60 split was what brought me back down before and I have to keep the carbs low and eating too much protein gives me an insulin issue, this split works for me provided I keep the overall calories correct. I was getting around 120 gs of protein for the 1700 or so calories which is the high end for my weight (128 ish lbs).

    BTW I forgot to say congrats on the weight loss!

    I'm going to start a thread about cortisol and fat storage particularly pertaining to women as I've been having some thoughts about that.

    Currently reading Alan Watts, Tao; The Watercourse Way.
    I read your parenting post but, not being a parent myself, I did not feel qualified to comment. I did think however that you handled things very effectively in the end. Getting there however was the cortisol elevator, right?

    If that split works for you, great. I think everyone needs to do their own tweaking to find what suits their body chemistry.

    Just remember to breathe.
    Hugs,
    Robin

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    150 is your lean mass at your current weight and BF composition, not your ideal. Some people recommend going with this number (like Art deVany) but I think it might be a bit high unless you are doing Batty level heavy lifting workouts.
    I know I will never hit anywhere near ideal. Even at my smallest weight which was 136, I looked anorexic. I average eating approximately 120-135g of protein a day just depending on activity level and such. I'm not lifting heavy like Batty does but doing bodyweight exercises gives me a lot of muscle. I've found if eat less than protein than what I listed, I am starving and then want to binge.

    Oh, I keep forgetting to congratulate you on being down 12 more pounds! That is awesome!
    Georgette

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    You're welcome. I'm glad it could help.
    Yes, intuitive eating is pretty easy for the first part of your weight loss journey. It's when you get down to those last few pounds that you need to keep a closer eye on things. Careful with the fasting. I know it's all the hot topic right now but there is some evidence that, if you get all of your protein for the day in one huge meal, it can cause insulin to spike.
    I don't believe insulin spikes. per se are a problem, Paleobird. It's ongoing, elevated insulin that is an issue.

    By IFing (while eating fewer meals) I am actually decreasing the overall amount of insulin in my system. pklopp talks about this in his IF primer.

  6. #56
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Great post, this will help others for a long time. You've addressed many concerns here.

    One thing I think that gets overlooked is "Fat Loss" vs "Weight Loss". I was trying to drop my final 10 lbs a while back, so I started upping fat, cutting carbs, restricting calories to 1500 (I'm a 6', 180lbs male). Within a week, my weight shot up 6 lbs and stayed there for 2 weeks, I started exercising more and restricting calories further, and it went up another 4 lbs in a few days.

    When you look at this rationally, it is physically impossible to pack on 10lbs of pure fat in 10 days while in a calorie deficit. The weight gain has to be from muscle gain (not likely 10lbs in 2 weeks) or water gain.

    Upon advice from you guys, I upped my calories to 2400 with about 150 grams protein and 50-100g carbs daily, I stayed at the same weight for 2 weeks not budging outside the 185-187 range. Then last week, all went back to normal and I lost 7 lbs in 2 days. Now I'm sitting at 180, and seem to be on track to lose the last 10lbs.

    What I've learned from all this, is that if you are eating right and exercising, don't sweat the weight gain--it isn't fat gain and it will really screw you up to treat it as excess fat. I'm positive this is why Atkins and the rest have such a high failure rate, they don't address minor setbacks in water gain. When a person gets the daily high of watching the scale go down, down, down, then with no changes in eating habits it goes up, up, up -- they say "This diet is a bunch of crap! Where my Twinkies at?"
    Anyway, learning HAS occured.
    Thanks
    In your case the weight was most likely mostly water retention due to sore muscles. The fact that 7lbs came off in 2 days bears that out. And 1500/day is way too low for someone your size.

    The thing you have to realize is that women's bodies are different (as if you hadn't already figured that out). We are fat storage machines and we do not pack on the muscle mass pounds as easily as men. So, for those of us who are not doing super heavy lifting, losing weight is a measure of losing fat.

    It's when you are already in ketosis but not losing anything, fat or weight and are told by the forum to eat more food and a higher proportion of fat and you believe it and wait for this to magically make everything right and it doesn't. That's when you start walking away. I never did eat twinkies, but had I not figured out this calorie restriction plan, I might have gone back to my brown rice and tofu stirfries.

    I wish you well with the last ten lbs.

  7. #57
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digby View Post
    Excellent post! The body can't let go of stored fat if you take in what the body needs, so for a few of us who stall easily, cutting cals is a must. I got so much grief when I shared what I was eating just to maintain, that I wouldn't say how low I really had to go. Now if I could have done a hike up a mountain every day, that might have changed, but sometimes you just can't do enough to get the fat to let go unless you restrict overall cals. I'm very happy for those who don't have to do this, but there's a spectrum in everything. Congrats on the loss.
    Yep, it's the fat on the fork or the fat on the tush.
    Thanks, and I hope it works for you too.

  8. #58
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geostump View Post
    I know I will never hit anywhere near ideal. Even at my smallest weight which was 136, I looked anorexic. I average eating approximately 120-135g of protein a day just depending on activity level and such. I'm not lifting heavy like Batty does but doing bodyweight exercises gives me a lot of muscle. I've found if eat less than protein than what I listed, I am starving and then want to binge.

    Oh, I keep forgetting to congratulate you on being down 12 more pounds! That is awesome!
    Yes, keeping hunger at bay with protein instead of masses of fat is the best way. How are the pull ups coming?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Yes, keeping hunger at bay with protein instead of masses of fat is the best way. How are the pull ups coming?
    Haven't tried any for awhile. I've been doing pushups and dips to work on arm and upper back strength before I even get into attempting a pullup.
    Georgette

  10. #60
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    I like this basic methodology. Last year I went between April and October with zero weight loss on PB and I was definitely frustrated. Then I lost some again (spontaneous calorie reduction), but then gained that back and am now back where I was last April! (Crap, I just now figured that out.)

    I need ~108 grams of protein per day and 1400 calories.

    Is there any way to get close to these macronutrient targets without having to use a calorie counter program or book? Something like the old diabetic exchanges (or Weight Watchers exchanges), or even the Zone style dinner plate ratios? I think that was 1/3 of your dinner plate would be protein and 2/3 would be non-starchy veggies. I am just lazy and hate the thought of having to look up everything I eat on a computer.
    I'm a quitter...but I'm back now.

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