Page 12 of 54 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 532

Thread: Calorie Counting Revisited : Distillation and Update page 12

  1. #111
    Ideal Peace's Avatar
    Ideal Peace is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    145
    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I did a post called Reality Check : Counting Calories.

    When I asked why I wasn't seeing weight loss, I was told, "Eat more fat!" and now I feel like I wasted five months trying to believe. I ate bacon and waited for the magic but it never happened.

    Recently there have been similar posts and my post was referenced. It got so huge it might be difficult to sift out the essentials. This is the distilled version.

    PB is a healthy WOE but it will not lead to weight/fat loss in my case unless I do some calorie restriction.

    I'm 49 w/30lbs to lose. No major health problems. Always physically fit. No cravings or binges. Very compliant with PB eating. I sleep well, get plenty of vitamin D, lots of play, minimal stress, tons of veggies, no processed junk, lots of good proteins and fats. Dairy free, legume free, minimal nuts and berries. Almost always good about following the PBF workout routine. I’m doing everything “right”, right?

    Body composition shift has got me into a smaller size jeans. But I am not buying “muscle is more compact than fat so ditch your scale”. At the levels I’m working out, I'm not packing on pounds of muscle. I am toning up but the reason I’m not seeing weight loss is not muscle mass gain but it would be reassuring to believe and keep eating bacon.

    I read Taubes GCBC. But there are still calories. Too many of them, even the good kind, and weight loss is not happening.

    Several pages assuring people I don’t have an eating disorder because I mentioned IFing. The IFs didn’t cause the stall, they were my attempt to break though it. Concern was appreciated, but no.

    Several comments about getting other stuff right before calorie restriction. Very valid but I think I am. Other than minimal/infrequent indulgences I such as a glass of red wine a handful of macadamia nuts or a square of dark chocolate, my whole life is Whole 30. I don’t cheat. I don’t 80/20, more like 98/2.

    Several said the reason for my stall was not enough fat. The paleo argument that primitive game was leaner and Primals are kidding ourselves about the need for so much fat does have some merit. Fat is not the demon we have been led to believe, but we shouldn't go “hog wild” with it either.

    Batty’s very perceptive comments on fat:

    "so, we have all programmed our bodies to switch from carbs to fat as fuel by bombarding ourselves with fat. now, our bodies are running happily with fat as fuel, and we are now still bombarding ourselves with its preferred fuel source. with the bombardment of dietary fat, you're not giving your body the ability to tap into its reserves.

    flip side of the coin: from what i got out of taubes' book, he asserts that it is about finding the foods that make your body want to expend more energy than it consumes - WANTING to, not forcing it to. this does not necessarily have to be achieved via caloric restriction. it could very well be the case that bombarding your body with fat causes your body to want to release more energy than it is given. if it were that easy, this would be a forum full of lean individuals, and we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place."

    This is the article that made the most sense about fat:
    The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. » Low-carb and calories
    .....

    When Taubes says calorie restriction is futile, he is talking about people with carbs running their metabolisms. Those of us long since over carbs are running on fat. But do you want to burn the fat on your fork or the fat on your tush?

    When carb junkies go PB, they naturally reduce calorie intake because most favorites are off the menu. My favorites have always been greasy salty crunchy things. To me PB is like a kid in a candy store.

    There are some people who should NOT be restricting calories.

    1)People who have or have had any kind of eating disorder or OCD tendencies. You need to have a healthy relationship with food and yourself first.
    2)People who don't have all the other parts of the PB plan "dialed in" to their life. Work the fundamentals first. Primalize your pantry, get a good PBF exercise program going, really live by the ten rules Mark lays out.
    3)People who have other health conditions keeping them from losing weight. Get those things healed.
    4)People who have nutritional deficiencies. These need to get sorted out.
    5)People suffering from metabolic disorders. Let your body heal.

    So those people for whom this really can work:

    1)You are living by all 10 of the PB laws.
    2)No cheating, bingeing, or cravings you can't walk away from. This shows that you are keto adapted.
    3)You are in pretty good health. Major health concerns resolved or well on their way there.
    4)You really do have some weight/fat to lose.
    5)You are already eating what Taubes would call good calories, sugar/carbs cleaned out of your system.
    6)You can handle tracking your calorie intake without it taking over your life or killing the joy of eating.

    To distill it down to “a plan” for how to do calorie restriction:

    1)Make sure caloric restriction is right for you (see above lists)

    2)Figure out your BMR. This is the amount of calories you need to just maintain at any given weight. Google “BMR calculator”. Bunches of them. A good one will have an activity multiplier so that you can factor in how active you are into your caloric needs.

    3) figure out how fast you want to lose weight. Good rule of thumb is a 500 calorie /day deficit means about 1 lb of fat /wk shed. This is sustainable. So BMR minus your deficit number gives you your target calories.

    4)Figure your protein needs. Some people base this on Lean Body Mass which is current weight minus your body fat content. This can be difficult and unreliable to measure. Another way to calculate this is based on ideal weight. This is your “hot stuff in swim wear (HSIS)” weight. You can determine this by a BMI calculator. There are lots of those as well. Your HSIS weight in pounds is the number of grams of protein you need.

    5)Target calories-protein needs gives you what you have left to “play with” between carbs and fats. Getting your protein has to come first. If you eat less carbs you get to have more fat. But whatever you do, don’t skimp on the protein. We get caught up in all the yummy fats and then are satiated long before we get enough protein while going overboard on calories in the process.

    1 gram fat=9 calories 1 gram carb=4 calories 1 gram protein=4 calories

    6) The “trick” is getting enough protein without going “over-budget” on calories.

    This means three things:
    a)Leaner choices in protein. Eggs, bison, venison, rabbit, lean game birds.
    b)Leaner cuts of meat. Flank steak not brisket. Beef heart jerky is great. Put bacon on hold for a while.
    c)Not adding fat onto food like gobs of mayo, cooking oil, and butter. Just appreciate the food.

    Nobody is advocating going all fat phobic Pritikin style. There is still plenty of fat in the protein.

    7)Track your daily numbers on any one of the many programs out there. I prefer Sparkpeople.

    I have been averaging about 1300-1400 calories a day and I don’t feel in the least bit hungry. My workouts have been better than ever and I credit that to the increased protein.

    And I’ve dropped 12 lbs plus I’ve lost an inch off my waist and two inches off my rear. Yeah, it works.

    If people would go back and read the PB, there would be a lot less objection to the idea of calorie counting. It's all in there. Protein portions, calorie targets.

    Before I made these changes, I wasn't tracking (since everyone kept telling me to ditch the scale and eat my bacon) but reverse engineering it I was eating about 2400 cal/day with maybe a 30/15/55 ratio of protein/carb/fat. Now its 1400 with ratios of 40/15/45. So carbs have stayed the same, I just moved some from the fat column to the protein and cut the overall quantity.

    For people who have a background of eating disorders the whole idea of calorie counting is a bad flashback, it attaches to very emotional issues. For me it's just about using a tool.
    Some people are not ready physically to deal with calorie tracking. People who are very overweight and whose diets are very SAD do lose weight just by switching to PB on the "eat bacon and be happy" plan because it is better than where they started. Their weight loss will stall at some point. That's when they need to come back and reread this thread. But, between going PB and stalling, they get a chance to do a lot of healing and I'm all for that.

    It's about different stages in the weight loss journey. Right now, I'm working on those last few pounds. I'm perfectly healthy. It's just a matter of settling for an OK body or making an effort and smarter choices and having an awesome one. I choose awesome.
    Right on the money. VLC is just fine, so long as you're dietary fat doesn't go too high as you're body could easily be calling on adipose fat for the same fatty acids. 1400-1700 calories for someone with 20+lbs is easy work, no hunger, and if you dont have a ED no cravings.

  2. #112
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by spakesneaker View Post
    Carb re-feeds seem like torture. It seems like you really cannot even add fat to the carbs, which is what usually makes them tasty (like butter with sweet potatoes). I love me some sweet potatoes, but eating 250g carbohydrate worth of one would involve forcing myself to eat past the point of satiety to a point of serious discomfort.
    Yeah, it just seems like a lot of pointless complication to me too. I don't really like carbs all that much so I would really have to force them down. What's the point?

  3. #113
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana Renata View Post
    Yeah that "more is better" mentality has gotten me into a lot of trouble over the last few years and left me stuck. I really have to learn to moderate myself, and I hope I've gotten better through trial and error. Currently fluctuating between 300-600 calorie deficits day to day, with one allowed pig-out per week which should take me to no more than +400-500 calories. So it's basically... 6 steps forward, 1 step back. I can be ok with that.

    LOL- I like that idea. When I get back into my 6's comfortably, I'm posting an azz shot too. I have so many pairs of jeans that I could be wearing. My wardrobe would practically double. For now they're packed away where they can't make me feel guilty. Once the 8's get loose, I'll drag them back out.

    Been toying with reviving my once weekly 36-hr IF that I used to do also. Maybe later if I stall out at the current routine, I'll gradually incorporate a longer fast one day a week. As it stands I'm doing coconut oil in the AM to get me going, a small lunch, and a full dinner, with optional dessert. 95-115g protein, averaging 1200-1500 calories. So far so good.

    *funny note- I was actually planning dessert tonight but dinner left me so full, I didn't want it.
    We could start a PrimalAzz pic gallery. LOL

  4. #114
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    I would say on those days when I have a "refeed" it's between 100 and 125 grams of carbohydrates. It usually takes the form of sweet potato

    But, there's no cycling or what have you. It's really just -- if i'm hungry. But, usually Friday or Saturday is our "carb loading" meal, and DH has sweet potato on his heavy lifting days (because otherwise, he feels like a zombie). But, it still is around 100 grams. *shrug* I dunno. it's working.
    Right. You are doing it when your body asks for it, not when some schedule says you should stuff it in. I like sweet potato. When I get to lean homeostasis I will enjoy one now and then.

  5. #115
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ideal Peace View Post
    Right on the money. VLC is just fine, so long as you're dietary fat doesn't go too high as you're body could easily be calling on adipose fat for the same fatty acids. 1400-1700 calories for someone with 20+lbs is easy work, no hunger, and if you dont have a ED no cravings.
    Exactly. People kept saying that this was going to be torture and why would I punish my body , etc. No torture or punishment going on here. No deprivation, just sensible moderation.

  6. #116
    peril's Avatar
    peril is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    2,679
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    We could start a PrimalAzz pic gallery. LOL
    How do I subscribe?
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

  7. #117
    Ideal Peace's Avatar
    Ideal Peace is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Exactly. People kept saying that this was going to be torture and why would I punish my body , etc. No torture or punishment going on here. No deprivation, just sensible moderation.
    If someone really wanted to toy with it (assuming they are free from any issues), they could do what Lyle McDonald has written about (who trains bodybuilders, and wrote The ketogenic diet) and do a "Crash diet" in which for up to 8 weeks you get only 800 calories a day, with at least 750 of them coming from only protein. Meaning the rest of the calories are from you're fat. This gives you enough protein to maintain muscle, and can cause 3-5lbs of weight loss per week. It's referred to as a Protein Sparing Modified Fast. It's probably the most extreme thing you can do besides a month long water fast to get you to a goal weight - afterwards adding a sensible eating plan.

    Some might think 800 calories of protein is too little. But that can be 32oz of Egg Whites (over a lb when cooked) and another 16oz of fat free cottage cheese in a single day.
    Last edited by Ideal Peace; 05-04-2011 at 08:22 PM.

  8. #118
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by peril View Post
    How do I subscribe?
    Well we already have a pic of you in your skivvies from that thread you did about bum size. So you are part of the gallery too.

    I'm finding all kinds of great ways to fix that kangaroo I ordered from down under at your suggestion. A Viennese friend and I invented Roolash *that's kangaroo goulash* and it was so yummy.

  9. #119
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ideal Peace View Post
    If someone really wanted to toy with it (assuming they are free from any issues), they could do what Lyle McDonald has written about (who trains bodybuilders, and wrote The ketogenic diet) and do a "Crash diet" in which for up to 8 weeks you get only 800 calories a day, with at least 750 of them coming from only protein. Meaning the rest of the calories are from you're fat. This gives you enough protein to maintain muscle, and can cause 3-5lbs of weight loss per week. It's referred to as a Protein Sparing Modified Fast. It's probably the most extreme thing you can do besides a month long water fast to get you to a goal weight - afterwards adding a sensible eating plan.

    Some might think 800 calories of protein is too little. But that can be 32oz of Egg Whites (over a lb when cooked) and another 16oz of fat free cottage cheese in a single day.
    I played around with stuff like that back in my bodybuilding days and it works but its not really sustainable.

  10. #120
    inquisitiveone's Avatar
    inquisitiveone is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    469
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Quote Originally Posted by paleobird View Post
    a viennese friend and i invented roolash *that's kangaroo goulash* and it was so yummy.
    lmao!!
    “Whether you think you can, or think you can’t — you’re right.” ~ Henry Ford

    My primal journal

Page 12 of 54 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •